Electric parking brakes

[someotherplace]

How are you guys dealing with electric parking brakes that are set, when you don't have the key?  I've been having to dolly them and it's a pain.

 

I've heard of salvage haulers that have retracted the brakes using a jumper wire but I'm unsure of exactly how they're doing so, and more importantly what consequences this might have for a non-crash vehicle that will be driven once it is picked up.  Obviously if it's a manual trans in neutral that's an obvious issue but for keeping the conversation simple let's assume I'm talking about an automatic trans in park, so there's no worry about roll-away if the brake is released.

 

Richard

[ESC]

We use dollies and add $50 to the fee.  We have a lot of Audi, BMW, VW around here with a lot of electrical issues.  I don't mess around, we just dolly them and charge accordingly.

[someotherplace]

Regulated non-consent rates prevent us from charging any extra.  Regardless, the vehicle must be towed.

Richard

[2000intow]

8 hours ago, someotherplace said:

Regulated non-consent rates prevent us from charging any extra.  Regardless, the vehicle must be towed.

Richard

Times change, vehicles change, rates should be adjusted accordingly. non-consent tow a-ways are getting tougher and tougher, maybe you can explain the issue to higher-ups? 

[someotherplace]

Let's just say that approaching the government entity that regulates the towing rate is a non-starter.  I'll absolutely agree with you though; we see more and more electric brake vehicles, and AWD vehicles.  Hook-and-book is becoming a thing of the past!

 

There is a way around the parking brake, just need to understand it better to be aware of how to effect it and if there's a liability angle.

 

Richard

Edited December 11, 2018 by someotherplace

[goodmichael]

Richard, that is probably going to vary with the manufacturer. Some are controlled through the PCM, some work on less than 12 volts, as little as 5 volts. I am attending a training on the 6.7 Ford diesel next month in your stomping grounds. I will ask a lot of questions as they pertain to FOMOCO.

Have a blessed and safe Christmas.

[someotherplace]

Thank you Michael!  Merry Christmas to you and yours, as well!

 

Richard

[Commissar0617]

On 12/11/2018 at 2:46 PM, someotherplace said:

Let's just say that approaching the government entity that regulates the towing rate is a non-starter.  I'll absolutely agree with you though; we see more and more electric brake vehicles, and AWD vehicles.  Hook-and-book is becoming a thing of the past!

 

There is a way around the parking brake, just need to understand it better to be aware of how to effect it and if there's a liability angle.

 

Richard

Then you just put em on a bed every time. Or dont tow em.  Eventually   business owners will get fed up 

[someotherplace]

On 1/2/2019 at 2:36 PM, Commissar0617 said:

Then you just put em on a bed every time. Or dont tow em.  Eventually   business owners will get fed up 

Bed?  This is PPI; all trucks on duty are wheel lift.  Don't tow?  Not an option.  If they're in violation, they will be towed.  Dollies will be used.  Just wondering about other possible options.

 

Richard

[Commissar0617]

17 hours ago, someotherplace said:

Bed?  This is PPI; all trucks on duty are wheel lift.  Don't tow?  Not an option.  If they're in violation, they will be towed.  Dollies will be used.  Just wondering about other possible options.

 

Richard

Plenty of people use rollbacks for ppi.  

[someotherplace]

6 hours ago, Commissar0617 said:

Plenty of people use rollbacks for ppi.  

I don't know about plenty.  If you're already out doing business that day in a rollback and just happen to get a PPI, not in a super-cramped and ultra-busy small commercial property, or a parking garage, I could understand that...but nobody is doing full-time PPI in a rollback.  I mean, I can use a football as a hammer and maybe have some success but I'm far better off using an actual hammer..

 

All other issues aside, something to keep in mind about throwing a rollback at this electric brake problem is you still have to position the vehicle for loading.  Remember?  It's a front wheel drive car with an electric parking brake.  You'd need 4 go-jaks to move it (and hope you're on fairly smooth, flat ground) just to get it in place to load.  We're not working in football fields, these are parking lots, and most of them have very limited room to maneuver.  By the time you get through running the deck down and pulling your line out of the winch, I'll already have the car loaded including popped up on dollies.  Then you still have to fight a car with 4 wheels that won't roll, up the deck...then back down to unload at the lot.  No dragging.. is it possible?  Absolutely.  If you want to take all day for 1 tow.

 

Richard

[Commissar0617]

4 hours ago, someotherplace said:

I don't know about plenty.  If you're already out doing business that day in a rollback and just happen to get a PPI, not in a super-cramped and ultra-busy small commercial property, or a parking garage, I could understand that...but nobody is doing full-time PPI in a rollback.  I mean, I can use a football as a hammer and maybe have some success but I'm far better off using an actual hammer..

 

All other issues aside, something to keep in mind about throwing a rollback at this electric brake problem is you still have to position the vehicle for loading.  Remember?  It's a front wheel drive car with an electric parking brake.  You'd need 4 go-jaks to move it (and hope you're on fairly smooth, flat ground) just to get it in place to load.  We're not working in football fields, these are parking lots, and most of them have very limited room to maneuver.  By the time you get through running the deck down and pulling your line out of the winch, I'll already have the car loaded including popped up on dollies.  Then you still have to fight a car with 4 wheels that won't roll, up the deck...then back down to unload at the lot.  No dragging.. is it possible?  Absolutely.  If you want to take all day for 1 tow.

 

Richard

skates or drag. shake it to get it off. most of the companies in my area are running 75-80% flatbed except for repo. it takes what? 20-30 seconds to hook up with a flatbed?

[goodmichael]

Dragging a vehicle onto a bed as well as shaking it off of the bed are not the methods I would want to have utilized if someone were to tow my property. As such, I would not do it to property that belongs to another.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

as far as i know, there is no bypass for those electric parking brakes. possibly some manufactures do have some form of bypass for them as they do for electronic transmission controls. i perform plenty of towaways for police and private property customers (with my flatbed  most times might i add) and i NEVER open a towaway vehicle for any reason. it just opens the opportunity for the vehicle owner who is already peeved because their car was towed to claim that there is additional damage or there is something missing from the vehicle etc... Our industry is laden with all types of equipment to perform these tasks. you just have to charge accordingly when you can. and yes i agree that most city/police towing is regulated (as is mine) and its not possible to charge extra for additional work/materials. its sadly part of the deal. our area hasn't had a rate increase  in over 20 years despite numerous requests, hearings and such. it certainly doesnt take all day to do one tow as was mentioned above. have the right equipment, know how to use it. 

[someotherplace]

On 1/6/2019 at 12:12 PM, Commissar0617 said:

skates or drag. shake it to get it off. most of the companies in my area are running 75-80% flatbed except for repo. it takes what? 20-30 seconds to hook up with a flatbed?

Dragging & shaking = you have destroyed any credibility you may have had in this discussion.  I also seriously doubt anybody with a flatbed is hooking up that quickly.  You may think you're operating that fast but you may want to put a stopwatch on it for a dose of reality.  Furthermore in the scenarios I already explained, you wouldn't even be able to get the truck into loading position; these are cramped, very busy parking lots.  There's literally no room for a flatbed to operate in a manner that wouldn't take many times longer than the slowest guy with a wheel lift.

 

On 1/7/2019 at 12:12 AM, GRUMPS THE TOWMAN said:

as far as i know, there is no bypass for those electric parking brakes. possibly some manufactures do have some form of bypass for them as they do for electronic transmission controls. i perform plenty of towaways for police and private property customers (with my flatbed  most times might i add) and i NEVER open a towaway vehicle for any reason. it just opens the opportunity for the vehicle owner who is already peeved because their car was towed to claim that there is additional damage or there is something missing from the vehicle etc... Our industry is laden with all types of equipment to perform these tasks. you just have to charge accordingly when you can. and yes i agree that most city/police towing is regulated (as is mine) and its not possible to charge extra for additional work/materials. its sadly part of the deal. our area hasn't had a rate increase  in over 20 years despite numerous requests, hearings and such. it certainly doesnt take all day to do one tow as was mentioned above. have the right equipment, know how to use it. 

Yeah, not looking for any kind of official override function - I wouldn't expect there to be one, and definitely would not be opening the car hoping to find one.  I have heard of junk haulers being able to bypass them with some trickery and it seems totally plausible; I'm sure the electric brake setup is a stepper motor or similar type design that you apply power and it engages, then reverse the polarity and it retracts.  There will be connections outside the vehicle near the brakes.  I'd be willing to bet that a little experimentation with a small jump box and some test leads, I could make it happen.  I was mostly curious if anybody else here had gone down that path and what the pros/cons might be; if it freaks out the onboard systems or if they're just not that smart and this can be done without any ill effects.

 

In reality and for sake of speed in most cases I'm sure we will continue to dolly.  However I foresee the situation where we'll have one a long distance from the lot with an electric brake set and it just isn't feasible to dolly it that far, but it must be towed.  Being able to release the brake would be a huge benefit.

 

My comment about taking all day with the flatbed was primarily just a figure of speech, by the way.  Many years ago I did quite a bit of flatbed work and have jammed them into places many think they wouldn't fit, but I am telling you, I have many areas I'm working now that you literally could not get a flatbed in to load.  Some responding seem to overlook that and still think you can throw that tool at any situation and that simply isn't true.

Richard

[GRUMPS The Towman]

i agree 100 % that a wheel lift / dolly tow can be performed quicker than a flatbed tow in a non consent tow situation as we have been using for discussion. 20-30 seconds to load is a ridiculous claim. i guess possible if one was to drag a vehicle up on the deck, not bother to secure it because you know, its in park with the electric e-brake on so wheres it gonna go?? ( No, i dont do that and NEVER would but i have seen it done ).  a flatbed non-consent tow can be performed in MOST cases for me in an efficient and proper manner was all i wanted to get across. of course there are situations where its just not possible. depending on your areas demographic, it may not work in most cases.  being a small, 2 truck operation in a somewhat small city my partner and i have been able to cover each other ( i run a flatbed and my partner a self loader ). as to your long distance dolly tow issue, what we have done in the past is remove the vehicle from its confined space with the wheel lift truck then load on the flatbed for the stretch trip. before i get bashed about cost effectiveness, i completely understand the " must be towed" situation and will do what needs to be done to perform the tow properly, safely and above all keep that customer or law enforcement agency calling me for their non consent towing needs. you cant just not tow them. business owners do in fact get fed up... and start calling your competition.

[Commissar0617]

On 1/9/2019 at 8:52 PM, GRUMPS The Towman said:

i agree 100 % that a wheel lift / dolly tow can be performed quicker than a flatbed tow in a non consent tow situation as we have been using for discussion. 20-30 seconds to load is a ridiculous claim. i guess possible if one was to drag a vehicle up on the deck, not bother to secure it because you know, its in park with the electric e-brake on so wheres it gonna go?? ( No, i dont do that and NEVER would but i have seen it done ).  a flatbed non-consent tow can be performed in MOST cases for me in an efficient and proper manner was all i wanted to get across. of course there are situations where its just not possible. depending on your areas demographic, it may not work in most cases.  being a small, 2 truck operation in a somewhat small city my partner and i have been able to cover each other ( i run a flatbed and my partner a self loader ). as to your long distance dolly tow issue, what we have done in the past is remove the vehicle from its confined space with the wheel lift truck then load on the flatbed for the stretch trip. before i get bashed about cost effectiveness, i completely understand the " must be towed" situation and will do what needs to be done to perform the tow properly, safely and above all keep that customer or law enforcement agency calling me for their non consent towing needs. you cant just not tow them. business owners do in fact get fed up... and start calling your competition. 

an experienced driver with the right setup can load and do a 2+winch tiedown in just 5 minutes. takes at least that to hook, dolly and strap.

[goodmichael]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 12:41 AM, Commissar0617 said:

an experienced driver with the right setup can load and do a 2+winch tiedown in just 5 minutes. takes at least that to hook, dolly and strap.

Under ideal situations this might be possibly true, but PPI as well as repossessions are a totally different species, not just animal. In many areas that I have worked, parking is TIGHT. A flatbed will simply not work from a logistic/fit standpoint. Then we have the issue of dragging a vehicle onto the bed. One is just asking for a damage claim when they do this. Even if it is a repossession, there is always the possibility that the car will be reclaimed by the debtor. When I see a person shake a vehicle from a flatbed, I deem that operator as needing additional training. THe only legitimate reason would be at the direction of law enforcement in an effort to preserve evidence.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

On 1/13/2019 at 1:41 AM, Commissar0617 said:

an experienced driver with the right setup can load and do a 2+winch tiedown in just 5 minutes. takes at least that to hook, dolly and strap.

of course thats possible, under the right conditions. but for the sake of this conversation it is presumed that the vehicle is parked in a position where a flatbed would not be able to get aligned with the vehicle and is in park with the electric parking brake applied. additional steps, equipment and time would be required to perform this properly.

[someotherplace]

I can see we have one responder here that is good at ignoring details and thinks what he knows works in every single situation.  Thanks for your input...

 

Richard

[Commissar0617]

On 1/14/2019 at 3:55 AM, goodmichael said:

When I see a person shake a vehicle from a flatbed, I deem that operator as needing additional training.

okay... i get that places are often too tight for a flatbed, but there are times you need to shake a car loose. how TF else are you going to get a vehicle off that won't shift? and you don't always have a wrecker, or the vehicle may not be suitable for towing on a wrecker.

[ESC]

okay... i get that places are often too tight for a flatbed, but there are times you need to shake a car loose. how TF else are you going to get a vehicle off that won't shift? and you don't always have a wrecker, or the vehicle may not be suitable for towing on a wrecker.

Skates, gojacks, dish soap from the dollar store even. All good ways to safely unload a car from a bed when stuck in park. I have used a snatch block at the end of the bed, doubled back to the front to winch the car off as needed. Rocking or shaking the bed back and forth is hard on the truck and the hydraulics as well as the car not to mention it doesn’t look very professional.


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[Commissar0617]

1 minute ago, ESC said:

 

 

Skates, gojacks, dish soap from the dollar store even. All good ways to safely unload a car from a bed when stuck in park. I have used a snatch block at the end of the bed, doubled back to the front to winch the car off as needed. Rocking or shaking the bed back and forth is hard on the truck and the hydraulics as well as the car not to mention it doesn’t look very professional. 


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had to do it todfay. dish soap will freeze in my climate, and the skates didn't help too much. don't have room on the truck to put gojaks anywhere. my deck is set up with d-rings for snatchblock, so i don't have one with a chain, nor do i have a center pocket to put one in. might be able to make something with chain, but the best way at the time, was to shake it till the rear wheels were off, then i alternating settign and releasing parking brake on the vehicle to slide it in a more gentle and controlled manner. basically how my trainer taught be to do it.

[goodmichael]

I am not picking on you, but that is definitely NOT a proper way to off load a vehicle. It is rough on your unit, can cause damage to the vehicle you are off loading, and I have to say, is just not the right way to get the job done. Please use your due diligence to get proper training. If you are ever the party of a lawsuit, you will make room for a set of go jacks. Again I am not picking on you, I want you to be a better, safer, more profitable operator. I have done many things over the years that at the time were the easy way. I now many times look back and ask myself, "what were you thinking?" Good luck, Be safe.

[TTOUT]

One question, does your local regulations say that once you are hooked, the vehicle is in your possession until a release is paid for? If so, hook it and then throw dollies, then go about your day. We would get to the vehicle, hook the front, or rear, and once we had it, it was ours. Even if the person came out, we still had legal possession of it and were allowed to charge a drop fee in addition to the hook fee. If they didnt want to pay it, off to the yard it went. At the time, the regulations here were $131 p/h minimum plus $70 drop fee and 15% fuel surcharge. All set by the state as required fees. We also would charge an after hours fee, (not state regulated), if someone just had to have their car back at 3 am. The person could avoid the drop fee and the after hours fee by coming in during normal business hours to get it back, this would be only 1 day storage for them which at the time was only $15 per day.