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Everything posted by Tow411

  1. Topic Created on Tow411 in 2012 by Reds : I see a lot of conversation of towing garbage trucks/packers etc on here and even though there alot more common in the bigger cities we still see them in the midwest, my question is I've read alot on rear towing these units but I've always wondered how that would be done as any garbage truck i've had to move has always rolled down the road on ones with rearend issues we pull axles etc the normal stuff but if there out there pictures of rear tows on the front loads and just your average everyday conventional garbage truck. Thanks svcmgrnow said: Is the question 'How' or 'Why'?? ..."my question is I've read alot on rear towing these units but I've always wondered how that would be done as any garbage truck i've had to move has always rolled down the road on ones with rearend issues we pull axles etc the normal stuff "........ I've towed one or two from the rear over the years, and if there isn't a critical problem (i.e. burned up wheel bearing, broken spring pack, broken axle housing, broken trunion or walking beam) it's not really worth the risk involved. It is not the same as towing an empty dump truck from the rear weight-wise, and you need a lot of truck and an experienced operator to get it done safely, and that's when they're empty. More truck and more operator required when they've got weight in them. Front end trucks can normally be forked on the frame or at the tag axle if equipped.................... Rear loaders are all different, usually use chain forks or end caps, aluminum angle and wood, run the chains under the hopper to a secure part of the chassis, either crossmember, frame rails, or pat of the rear suspension........ Towgodess14 said: These trucks had a cracked rearend housing. Not my first choice to tow but it can be done.They are heavy and you have to be stretched out a lot to clear. One of the big issues is over loading the front axle of the trash truck. Heavy to begin with, load transfer makes it far worse. Height is also something to watch out for. Unknown member said: I prefer to remove the dot bumpers and tow bar them with end caps at the end of the frame rails. Chains ran forward to what ever you can get. Less weight on the tow truck. Be careful on expeditors rear towing you are transferring a lot of weight forward and the ends of the front frame rails are very weak. They break off just driving down the road.We get a damage waiver signed before rear towing them even thou we do all there towing. Reds said: The ones I was referring to is the type with the barrel back like the single axle and the green tandem I would like some close ups on the hook-ups. I get the grab the frame/crossmember something solid but how the chains come around to the tow-bar I'm guessing is what's used. can a guy run the chains right on the barrel or do you need to crib it somewhere? Had one a few weeks back that grenaded the rear axle houseing and pulling axles was a ... hookin from the rear would've been quicker easier I've just never done it and don't want any problems if/when I do do it. Thanks lad12der said: Yes on the rear loaders you can grab and section of frame. ( I grab from in front of the front rear) Then up under the belly of the hopper and then up to chain forks. Depending on whats on the back of the hopper you then can either use a piece of angle iron or atleast old mud flaps and sling the truck. If the hopper has tippers or such on the back you can still sling them you just have to ensure none of the lines are pinched etc. Sorry I don't have any pics on hand, I'm sure Mr Jason most likly has em. Next one I get I will try to photograph. svcmgrnow said: Is it just me, or is this the only topic on this entire forum in nano-font?? wtf?? My eyes are bad enough......lol First, make sure the turnbuckles that hold the hopper against the rear of the body are tight and in good condition. Chain routing under the hopper is nothing special, they can usually handle the weight of being 'cradled' like that but if there are weak points 4x6's are handy. The back is where it gets tricky. At the least I usually have to remove the inner lights and grommets so my angle iron doesn't damage them and a 4x6 under the rear lip helps spread the weight out across the back. The ones with hydraulic can tippers are even trickier, some un-towable, some not. You're going to have to figure those out. It can be done, and I have pics, but no way I'm posting them on here because my sanity would be questioned........... The fact is that regardless of the type of failure (springs, bearing, housing) or location (left or right, front or rear tandem) most can be towed from the front with some work, some chains, some wood and a tire guy. All they have to do is roll........that's what I do when they're loaded. Couple More Three-Leggers, Bad Front Paws Had two of these in the last week. First one had the wheel bearing fail on the front left tandem, walked the wheels/hub/axle out a foot or so. Driver stopped driving it when truck stopped moving in the middle of a busy resedential neighborhood. Apx 3/4 loaded with yard waste. No action pics, too busy dodging angry home owners that think their trash magically disappears after being placed at the curb!! Lfted the rear and blocked up rear tandem, removed wheels from front axle and slid hub/drum assy back over brake shoes as far as it would go with brakes released. Set parking brake and blocked off air line so brake shoes would hold the hub in as I came down the road. Gently towed back home. Second unit broke down in the left turn lane into the landfill, broken spring bucket on right front tandem, and needless to say, they don't go to the landfill empty!! Lifted rear, blocked front and rear axles on right side, and hooked from front. Eased on to the scale, truck came in at 62,240lbs, then off to the top of the hill to give birth! Front tandem.......once load was off, there was no weight on this block, was removed for tow back to customer's shop. Up to the top of the hill............. Truck is dilated and ready to give birth........ Ahhhh, much better now, time to go home..................... ATR1 said: are you just lifting from under the back door flat on the crossbar, had one the other day and would have made it easier to get the wheels off and axle blocked but didn't trust the back of the body svcmgrnow said: Yeah, those particular Leach bodies are stout, but definitely worth checking the turnbuckles securing the hopper to the body prior to lifting. Eric Smith aka Just Another Hooker said: Ahh yes, From the top of Brown station the view is great !!! On a clear day, you can see the White House. srvmgrnow said: Had this one last week, front end truck out on the D.C. Beltway, right side wheel bearing on rear tandem trashed, loaded with cardboard. Jacked up rear and removed wheels, lucked out w/hole in subframe for hydraulic lines and ran 2 3/8's grade 80 chains/binders, then blocked up front tandem. Could not find an oak 2x4 on my truck to save my life, had to improvise with a random pull pin to make up difference between frame stop and my handy-dandy Mack frame stop channel, limped off Beltway and back to customer's yard, apx. 8mi. @ 30mph max speed. Customer happy, but not as happy as I was to remove from the back of my truck!! Customer: Just a little light cardboard on her........... Me: A little light cardboard doesn't make its own gravy............especially in front of the tandems! Old school hook up - chains under front axle, over tie rod, hooked into frame behind rear spring hanger so I could keep her as close to the ground as possible. Sometimes you just get lucky when you need to.......... Pretty? No. Pretty effective? Oh yeah. Concern about that pin moving? Well I know that gravity is only a theory, but I'm a firm believer! No style points but got her from A to B. capptow said: nice tow. With all the time you spent under that packer i bet your glad it wasnt 100 degrees and magot soup. ryan ratif3 said: Been there, Done that!!! good job! Brinkleys said: Looks good to me. Common sense is great tool to have in ur box. Firm believer in gravity as well. mrbill said: A well thought out plan congrats Jerrys Road Service said: Thats thinking outside the box Just Another Hooker said: See I told you could do it !! Now lets go see Dr Powell and his magic blocks. Eric S. svcmgrnow said: Yeah, this getting old crap sucks, the mind needs jump starting every now and then, thanks for letting me bounce some ideas off you. Really, with one small oak 2x4 (now available at the local Int dealer, and coincidentally now in stock on my truck!), it would have been perfect and I could have collected "style" points!! lol Don't think the good Dr. has his blocks anymore, but I kind of prefer spreading the weight out with the oak anyway. Towmanjc said: Do you tow them the same way if the are grossed out?? I had a tri-axle rear loader with the right rear with a bad wheel bearing. I got off the road until mechanic can look at it..The one I got has walking beam suspension.. Any ideas?? svdngrnow said: Yeah, same deal. This one was probably in the 55K-57K GVW range but I've had 'em heavier. Getting that front tandem blocked up really well is the important part, that's achieved by jacking the rear axle up as high as possible when removing the wheels and chaining it up, then block up the front and let it down. Not a pleasant tow but gets the job done. I was asked to clarify something on this tow as it affected another tow company here locally last week. My customer diagnosed this breakdown as a brake problem; it wasn't until I took a little closer look that I realized the severity of the issue (gear oil all over underside of body, brake shoes 1/2" out of drum were real obvious signs). Never take what your customer tells you as fact when it comes to wheel/brake problems, it can end up like this: Or if your looking for real headaches, like this: Yeah, that's Heat 'N Glo alright, misdiagnosed by both customer and tower as brake problem and I can only assume costly to both! From what I understand, boys from Montgomery County Fire Dept. responded to this vehicle up in Gaithersburg due to right rear being "en fuego", at which point tow service was called by owner to bring back to PG. I can only assume everyone involved thought it was a brake issue because a) all the brake chambers had been pinned, no sign of air run to truck, and b) who in their right mind would tow a packed out front end truck from the front from Gaithersburg to Bladensburg on a bad rear wheel bearing?? Either way, made it to the DC Beltway @ Riggs Rd. before it required serious attention from the PG Fire Dept. From what the people at the repair shop told me (and from the marks on the packer body subframe) unit reached it's destination being towed from the rear off the Beltway?!?!? Bet that wasn't a fun tow, ICC bar still intact so tall forks and stands would've been needed, as well as a large set of balls...........unit is loaded heavy. MTA412 said: WOW! I don't see no way in hell the steer tires/king pins/spring shackles would hold up under the weight of a rear tow. I smell a RGN in that trucks future!!!
  2. Topic Originally Created in May of 2012 by Fantonio247: Century 612 with Dump truck A freightliner classic reckmaster1 said: is that not a little much for the ole' 12 ton? upNout said: Ya have to love Tow411. LMAO Patton's 5 Star Towing 29700 Lorain RD. North Olmsted OH. 44070 440-777-4070 Fax, 440-777-4028 InternationalStar said: wow talk about having big balls i would never do that Greenwich Towing said: wow I put a F-550 on mine and I think im doing something. Greenwich Towing www.greenwichtowing.com Steven R. Peterson Silverhawk said: I would like to say never, but that is the way we used to do it back in the 60's and 70's, when we were young and dumb and full of ? Had a Studebaker with a 525 Holmes w/hydraulic brakes. Would be put under the jail if we tried that these days. I will say that I will never do it like that now. Got wiser in my old age. Safety is now job one, not the ability to get it done anyway we can. 203-869-5523 dragonwagonII said: I have a 12 ton iv towed a dump truck from the front , either that dump is damn heavy or your rear springs are giving pretty easy . Mine is only 96 ca and it didnt go front lite as your truck would appear to be in the photo . I picked up an IHC which is a lighter truck . That dump would be what , 18 to 20 K , 10 to 12 on the front axel . Seems to me he is with in the ablity of a 12 ton but that photo looks like his rear springs are sure sagging . Um the truck is empty i assume ! BalckAutoload said: The pics are terrible... hard to see how you are hooked. Chain thru tow hooks ? morrisandsons said: Please stop. Spend some time researching the way things are done and the true capability of your truck. What you are doing is unsafe, and you could really hurt yourself or someone else. Acestowing said: I'd guess that dump around 21K appears to be a steel box. Even on the sling that is too much weight for that truck, sure it will lift it but I know a single axle won't stop that kind of weight in any hurry at all. Let alone the steering ability. Bryce Weber - Aces Towing WM 091409 Level 6/7 1-519-889-3350 fantonio247 said: thanks for all your comments, I'm in El Salvador, I just wanted to show my work. timstruckservice said: Noticing that things are done differently in other parts of the world, It appears that your Unit has Air Brakes and hopefully a Steel Tow Bar instead of a Sling ! Guessing this is the Largest Truck you have for Towing with ? A Century 612 is a Nice Unit and Capable of alot of things, but Personally I would not Attempt to Tow something that Large / Heavy with our 12 Ton. Nice to see someone from El Salvador on here Posting .... Hopefully You will continue to Post more & take Constructive Criticism as a good thing - not as Bashing. wreck85 said: You got the job done i would presume you are tapped into the brakes or running a brake buddy , if not that was a white knuckle ride . I had an 897 on a topkick and the brakes and the pul power were the issue the truck would lift all day and not say no but the chassis was screaming. fantonio247 said: "upNout wrote:Ya have to love Tow411. LMAO" you're so right. "wreck85 wrote:You got the job done i would presume you are tapped into the brakes or running a brake buddy , if not that was a white knuckle ride . I had an 897 on a topkick and the brakes and the pul power were the issue the truck would lift all day and not say no but the chassis was screaming." well, my truck it's the Topkick C7 I think, air brakes, all double frame, rt6610 tranny and turned up cat 3116, the power never was a issue, when I'm towing my top speed it's about 50 mph on 8th gear, and I really love the mpg of this truck. Here is some recent towing. Acestowing said: We went to El Salvador to a resort 2 years ago, the roads and traffic system there are much different than ours, if I remember correctly there is minimal rules on the road? Our bus ride was 2 hours, speed really seemed to be enforced there but saftey of commercial vehicles was much different from ours. I saw the rural fire stations too, very minimal equipment. You have to do the job with what you have, I only saw single axle wreckers there, a lot of old holmes units. We went through a fatal accident where a garbage truck had rolled, with kids on board, it was a very sad thing to see. Its nice to see towing from other parts of the world! What other equipment does your company run? Is that your biggest wrecker? Bryce Weber - Aces Towing WM 091409 Level 6/7 1-519-889-3350 Reds said: Century 12 ton translates to 24,000lbs. boom looks to have a 12,000 steer(rating) on the dump the old Holmes truck bars the smaller ones were rated at what? 8000lbs lift 50,000 tow?? I think the big ones were 13,000 lift and 80,000 tow, most likely 7/16ths wire rope cant tell in the dump photo for sure but in the second one it appears as lines are doubled. pretty sure everyone agrees that size of wrecker isn't going to pick that dump loaded. I think hes within the "ratings" of everything (and being from elsalvador..what ratings/laws-lol) Hook 'er up and let that dog eat!!! Heck air brakes on the wrecker unit that chassis isn't really and lighter or shorter than the old fords or chevys with the 600's on the back and guys towed stuff like that all day and everyday.
  3. Tow411

    HONK is annoying me!

    The Following was a topic of discussion on Tow411 in 2017: So I have been playing with HONK a bit.... the first tow I did for them was a total pain with phone calls, etc. The price was set at our normal hookup rate and 5 free miles. Short story, it wasn't worth the headache. They kept calling for more jobs, and I got tired of it. I thought it would solve the problem by going into their system and maxing out the rates as high as they would allow. Boy was I wrong. I dunno if it was coincidence or what, but the day after I went to the highest that their slide bar on their site would allow I got 3 jobs from them that all happened to be local decent jobs. Especially for the rates. $95 light service, etc. and even a tow at $95 + $4/ mile with no free miles. The jobs actually went well, and paid right away, etc. That I can work with. Now the past week, they keep calling me with the automated system, and I accept a job with a short eta and all (for the rates that i am set at, i don't mind). The last 3 in a row they call back and say we see that you have accepted a job, are you still available. I say yes, and they go on to say would you be able to do the job for $84. At that point I tend to flip out on them... If my rate is set at $95, why are you calling me asking me to accept $84. NO... I wont. Just on principal alone, even if its in my own parking lot. (Hahaha.... well, maybe). It just annoys me. They are quickly going to get the boot from me. rlc4523 said: The Automated system alone annoys the heck out of us with the Horn Honk Sound when you answer. We have done several jobs for them and have had no problems to really complain about other than a couple of weeks ago they called us for what originally sounded like a short tow in the next town north of us. I start taking the info and then lastly the dispatcher says "oh I should tell you there are 3 passengers" so I tell her I can only take 2 passengers in my truck. She replies "well 1 passenger is a 6 month old it can ride on someone's lap"............ REALLY ?!?! I politely replied that I would not do that and that it was against the Law in my state. She was actually stumped that I wouldn't take the call because of that??? Fast Forward 1hr, Honk calls again with a different dispatcher, same call, I stop him short asking him if they made arrangements for the passengers yet because I can not take 3 passengers in my truck. He says "No we have not but 1 of the Passengers is a 6 month old......." I again told him that it was against the law and he was stumped also. I suggested they call a company with an extended cab, call a taxi, or they can pay us to take a second truck up to play taxi (which they apparently didn't want to do). I was out of the office at the time and when I came back I had an email from Honk with the tow details.....they weren't in the town north of us just going across town they were actually 15 miles North of that town at a rest area ON THE FREEWAY. They expected me to transport them down the freeway with a 6 month old sitting on mom's lap. I DON"T THINK SO. Common Sense people.... in what world would that be remotely ok?!?. It took me almost a week but I finally got a hold of one of the top people for Honk and I do believe there is going to be some mandatory dispatcher re-training!!! towmaterbend said: super annoying to get a call, that you CANNOT pause, to bid a job that lacks all the details, and then go through the bid only to be told, "you are unlikely to get the job because your bid is over the maximum of 84.00.... would you like to rebid?" i predict major changes to alstates foray into the most annoying dispatch system on planet earth. Red Top Recovery said: Probably "win" 1 of 5 jobs, they started calling in with a live person when I hang up because to we're too busy to even offer a quote which adds to agitation. MrsHook said: When i answer the phone and the greeting is an annoying recording of a car horn, i hang up. Maybe they think it's cute .... I think it's rude. Ive no idea who they are or what they do .... I can't get past the horn. Lol @ESC @towmaterbend @Red Top Recovery @MrsHook
  4. This Topic Originally created in 2017. ESC said: Allstate .... what can you do except laugh. They want me to go 70 miles enroute for a 12 mile tow. And they recommend I provide a 30 minute or less eta. It just irritates me that they can call and bother me about this sort of job, yet they can’t call me for one broken down in my own parking lot. They send someone else. LouW said: Been asked a few times this weekend for 2 different local tows 5 miles thats about 40 plus miles from me. Waste of tying up my phone line. I also like the calls i already said no to when they send it over tow magic and they call me anyway. That's when I say ok ill go that far for my commercial rate.
  5. This Topic was created on Tow411 in Mar of 2009: Mathew106 : Get a call on the interstate. Get the authorization # and were on our way to customer. Get on scene and customer said car runs great, don't need ya. My driver leaves and I call for a GOA. I call Signature to get the GOA and while i'm on the phone customer calls back and asks that the driver return and pick him up 2 miles further down the road. Wasn't running so great after all? I call Signature back to request the GOA and a new autorization #. 1st call. I explain the situation to the dispatcher. He explains that he has to call the member to confirm.....( because I am a Liar I guess) After waiting several minutes I get hung up on. Customere calls me direct again and told me his motor club called by digital recording and requested if the tow was in process and he advised yes. He asked if that was a problem. I told him we were not approved to do another run yet. He said, Well the driver could not have gone far. I said thats right, but he did go and since he left the scene after you refused our service this will be a new run. 2nd call. I re-explain the entire conversation to the new dispatcher. Sir, I'll have to put you on hold while I get you that #. 10 minutes later she returns and gives me the same exact run number as before. I advised her I needed a new run # and explained one more time what had happenned. Guess what, yep, disconnected again. I call my driver only to find the car had been reloaded onto the flat bed and it was now in motion. I advised him to pull off and wait for a run #. 3rd call. I had to explain again the entire situation to a new dispatcher. On hold again I was. She came back on line and explained it would be awhile because the prior dispatcher had left for the day.. 15 minutes later I finally recieved a new # to complete the second run. Two days ago signature called from India. He asked if we could do a run and gave me the specifics. I said yes we can with a 20 minute ETA. He said great, what company are you with? I said WHAT??? You meen to tell me you called a service provider of sinature motor club and you don't know who we are?? He said very sorry sir whats the name of your company? I started laughing and told him my co. name. He said I was not in the system. I laughed harder and explained that it is a shame a customer is sitting along side of a busy interstate, and will be for quite some time because you cant figure out the info on the company you called to give them assistance. I explained that he could call back when comes to grasp with his surroundings. 20 minutes later he called back and I finally got a run #. Is this what we can expect in future years to come? If so, I'm buying an ice cream truck! Riddle's 24 Hour Towing and Lockout LLC 94 Clay Street Cadiz KY 42211 270-350-6368 https://www.facebook.com/riddlestowing DavidV440: i'd go for the ice cream truck,at least you'll have good humour lol!!!!!!!!!!! WEBOSLH: Had a jump start run about a month ago. Customer was on phone to sig when I arrived. Cust called me at base. Sig would not re-imberse her run be cause I wasn't on the call list. I asked her who she called, AARP I think, and I called and talked to dispatch and after a few minutes India tells me I'm not on the call list. I tell them I am on the list, I hold for a few more minutes and they said I wasn't but would I take care of their customer. Oh, but of course! My Rate! Sig agreed, did the job. All is well. About a week later I get an E-mail from the reg rep stating I have been put on a hold for doing runs. No reason given. Then I get an e-mail wanting to know my rates for sig. You know that answer. Haven't heard a thing for about a month. Still on hold I guess. Either they have someone coming in town from elsewhere or someone is doing runs for less than fifty dollars per run. oklatom: Well, it could be someone is doing it for less than $50 a call, but not because they want to or set those rates. I've been shorted twice now since they seem to think my rate is $25, which is equal to what they told it was after the merger, but since I didn't agree to that... papaskeeb2: Good luck with getting paid... I had the same thing, my driver shows up to a break down, the lady is pulling out. Calls and cancels, got a po for goa. 5 minutes later i get a call, now she is in the middle of the road car shut off again. Told them I needed a po for the tow, they gave it to me. But like always when you goto claim a po for someone that had 2 services in one day, you cant do it online. The the real kick in the teeth was there was no money allowed on second po. Mailed them in 3weeks ago. no check yet twotows: LOL With all the issues everyone seems to be having with them, why is anybody taking their calls? Dispatch issues, too much time on the phone. Payment issues. Originally when I got their "change of rates" with no contract we stopped until we could negotiate with our rep, (which by the way has never called) . But now I don't think I would take them back on board due to payment issues. @Mathew106
  6. This was a Topic of Discussion on Tow411 in 2008: Charlie Rittenhouse: Received letter today from allstate they are now putting my area up for bid. letter is real vage wants price bid western suffolk which is huge area.According to the letter if i win the bid i am guaranteed the 1st call everytime. i must answer 90% or better call volume have less then 60 minute eta. I am allreday the primary in my area with 98% call answer. I am guessing now that they combined with GE i know have to have a bidding war with there primary. GEMMATOW: i got the same letter, allstate wants my to handle all of nassau county, what a choir that would be,will all the traffic conditions & not too mention severe weather conditions,on long island WEBOSLH: Charlie, this isn't directed to you personally, only at what I see as an avenue for the cheapening of the towers for allstate.I haven't gotten the "packets" or the "letters", but if they want me to bid on my area , however big it should be, I'll bid twice my retail rate. That way when the primary is too busy to catch all the runs, or burns out , all they have left is ME. So I'll be able to do one run and make twice the money and profit. And what the primary makes in two runs ,with twice the expenses ,and maybe half the profit he should get from one run. On some bids , it may not always be good to select the cheapest bidder. What if the primary can't keep his end of the contract? Is he sent down to the minors? (Good grief , what could be lower than _____.?) Then does the "other" provider become the primary? How long is the contract good. How long does the award winning lowest bidder got to work for peanuts before he can ask for a raise? If an award is given to the lowest bidder, what is to keep allstate from going after an even cheaper provider. Can the first Primary be under cut and made a back-up? What about the contract stating an"exclusive" area and rate? Why not just raise the premiums across the country one dollar on each person covered by allstate. Take that money to pay truly fair and profitable rates to their providers. Then this potential can of worms will never be opened. Oh! Silly me! I forgot we're dealing with an INSURANCE COMPANY, and we have all done that! tlw towing: I just talked to my allstate rep the can of worms is open already! He told be they are doing it in some areas and likely will expand it. ExpressTowAaron: We quit Allstate as soon as I got my letter saying they were lowering my rates because I used to be a GE contractor and they paid me less... It is very funny when Allstate calls, we refuse and then we mysteriously get a private call 45 mins later for the same car in the same place. tlw towing: Got my letters today! Allstate lowered rates to Ge rates. GEMMATOW: not for nothing but in my opinion, the reason why us towing companies, find it harder to get better rates is because the roadside assistance only companies do our road calls for less &, take away at least 40 % of our once profitable business !!! Charlie Rittenhouse: i agree thr e roadside assist company's showing up in hyundai's in my area take 5000 calls a year Allstate says they use them because they found a drop of 10% in cars being towed useing roadside only. they state that they feel we would do a fake jump recommend a shop and get a kick back. annettemcd: It goes back to the issue that the motor clubs do not trust the towers. They question our mileage on tows and they think that we will fake a jumpstart to turn it into a tow. Plus who gets kickbacks from shops? I certainly don't. If the motor clubs can trust us to handle the expensive vehicles of their clients, why can they not trust our dealings with them? On the other hand, how many towers have handled jobs where a jump didn't work and the vehicle needed a second call for a tow? Most towers that I have talked to recently do not respond with a tow truck to a jump anyway, unless it is dispatched as a jump/possible tow or a long distance call where the reason for the need for the jump is unknown. Why drive a tow truck, if you have a service vehicle that can respond and I would imagine that most towers now have service vehicles in addition to their tow trucks. I think some of the reasons that roadside only businesses offer lower rates is because they do not have the same levels of expenses, but I think that there is also a major possibility that some of them have business plans which are not well thought out and they are operating at low or no profit and may not even realize it yet. Angeltowing: The problem with the roadside only companies is us towers. We let the clubs change there original call volume %s with out renegotiating our rates. I know when I negotiated my rates a lifetime ago I was told by the reps that you can tow for a little less and get the volume on the roadside assist calls. They had a revenue per call mentality. That worked throughout the early 1990s. We would make a profit because our call volume would be up, and a good percentage of calls were jumps and lockouts. I didnt have to add trucks to do volume. When the roadside companies came along we lost the profit. The revenue per call was not negotiable. You know the old " you are the highest paid in the area" line. We were still getting $xx.xx for tows. The only thing is,now it is 100% tows. No more roadside. Now to get 20 calls done in a day you need 2 trucks. Back then 2 trucks could do 40 calls. I miss towing for the motor clubs and MAKING A PROFIT. Hey Charlie, I also had gotten that letter. Havent had a chance to look at it but dont worry, I think the double retail idea may be a good one. I wont under bid ya, I promise. One thing we all can do is insist on contracts with term limits. Why have a contract that never comes to an end. If you are handling a lot of calls for a club and your contract is about to expire they will be willing to negotiate. Lets face it, they are going to look for the cheapest guy anyway, but if they need you they will negotiate. Isnt that how everyone else negotiates a contract. Think about it. Do you ever here of a Baseball player with an unlimited contract with no term. Why do we let no term contracts be the standard for our business. Sorry for the rant. Just my thoughts. Mike 13thrattler: I got my letter today through e-mail. They want me to bid on my own area. OK------------I'm the only one in this area-------------SO----------I'm going to bid $10.00 more on the hook-up and 0.50 more on the mileage. Let's see if they send me any more stupid letters. Gilbert myerstowing : I have never heard of a motorclub putting out a bid? Unless it was AAA or something, does that mean if you "win" you enter a contract, not an agreement? firemedic: Gilbert, I also got mine this evening through the email. I was going to trash it because I am the only one in my area also, but I think I will do like you, bid more and see what they say. Bet I get a call or a letter telling me they will not use me anymore. Call volume areas? Not me, maybe 8-10 a month in my area, the rest out of area, but areas I am sometimes at so I get those also cause they don't have anyone out there. Annettemcd: Ha! firemedic you call that rural. I would be happy with half that many calls in a year. I can not remember when I last had a call from Allstate or GE/Financial in my area. I do not think that there has been more than one this year (and I do not think that a significant number are going to other towers). firemedic: Yeah, but I am somewhat near a civilized world. Just kidding. Honestly, I applaud you for being able to live and work in Alaska. Beautiful country, my cousin was a state trooper up there near Anchorage after getting out of the Army. I visited once and loved it, but I grew up on the Texas coast, it was way too cold up there for me. Heck, I lived in Oklahoma for a year and you could tell I was from Texas due to being the only one bundled up in September. I do have a rural area for my part of the country, but you are right you have me beat. Have you gotten a letter yet? 13thrattler: Annette, you are not rual, you are remote. Which is just this side of LOST. Gilbert Annettemcd: Yep, sometimes I miss the civilized world. No, I haven't gotten a letter yet to bid for my area. I am not holding my breathe either. Does your cousin still live up here in the Far North? You should come visit some time. (It gets into the 90s in the summer. (Really!)) firemedic: Annette, I haven't talked to him in about 4-5 years, I think he does, just don't know where. Unknown: Well it happened to us also we received another dreaded halfA** written email from the above motor club today . We Started out in Shock but should have seen it coming , Listen Allstate Just payed alot of money for these guys , they want to keep their jobs , So let's do it on the backs of the towers AGAIN! Anyway , THIS CAN OF WORMS IS OPEN . If they manage to get the towers to lower their rates through a bid process and save money , than , MAKE NO MISTAKE, All the motor clubs will follow !! This will be just the start of it , you think Cross country rates are bad ,you haven't seen nothing yet ! In some states what they did with the contacts you had and forcing the lower rates on you is illegally but now that the are one and moving toward a bid not much you can do !! EXCEPT !! Use you head and good business sense bid at a rate that you can make a living at and feed your family and employees at . Don't fall for this You will get top priority CRAP( for how long ) . This is all about PRICE, not service or anything else . They will carry this to the people who give them the contracts(aarp , ins companies etc ) and tell them the towers will do this and this is what WE agree to do in exchange . myerstowing : Well I got the Email today, in California it has now hit coast to coast, so Annette Alaska may be next! How long does it take to send an email to Alaska? Just kidding. I am going to send it in with much higher rates, let the others burn out and I will take the $$ calls? I dont understand how they want their "bid"? The email doesnt have much information. Unknown: Please everyone , some good insight here , If they manage to drive the price down with a bid the road will get worse for everyone , all M/C will follow !! That dont count on you bidding like you are running a business , they count on you bidding like it is ok to do the work as long as you have a little money in your pocket to pay for fuel . Use Your Head , Look at The Numbers !! Not just the Volume thay promise . Remember the old saying , you cant buy watermelons for a dollar and sell for a dollar and make money !! (even with and bigger truck to haul them ! ) it is still and dollar for a dollar and YOU did all the work for nothing ... Atrmick : They just sent us a rate agreement. Heck of a lot better than Cross Country. We will give them a try and see how they do when comes to paying. With CCMC we have had very little problems. So far I have always received calls back from our rep if I needed to talk to them. Here is the bottom line for us. When we no longer like the deal we are getting from them, then we will stop doing business with them under their rates. @Charlie Rittenhouse @Gemmatow @annettemcd @Angeltowing @myerstowing @Firemedic @atrmick
  7. Drivers Pay Discussion from 2004: Columbia Tow: We start our drivers out at 25% commission on everything they do. We do not cheat our drivers out of mileage though like some companies out here do. We run this for the first 90 days to see if the driver is compatible with us and vice versa. If the driver has prior towing experience, then we raise them to 27% after the 90 day "getting to know you" phase of their employment. Drivers with no prior experience must wait 1 year before moving up the pay scale. It works pretty good here. 13thrattler: I pay a weekly salary for Mon. thur Friday--8 to-6. Anything they do during company hrs. is just earning that weekly pay check. After hrs. is 25% of the gross. If a driver goes out at 4pm. and returns anytime after 6pm. (closing) he gets $15.00 per hr. If he goes out at 5:30 and gets back 4 hr. latter than the call is his. However if he gets back at 6:30 then the call is the companies. It is a give a take situation, you just have to use your head, and be fair. Not all calls fall into the "his or mine" category. Gilbert Jeepers1: We pay 30% and I have a driver that has been with me for a few years at 35%. We have found that being paid on commission keeps them motivated to work. The night calls everyone does - even the bosses (my husband of course - he occasionally makes me go) if need be - percentage is still the same but are rates go up $10 from 7-9 pm 9 to 12 another $10 and so on and so forth - got to make it worth doing. Laurie datowman: we pay hourly during the day from 8 - 5 and then evening weekend work at 30% Stay Safe John My sole purpose in life is to answer only "yes dear" while kneeling before the blonde that I serve. Heidi: I pay my drivers a base salary or 30% whichever is more, and if they work extra hours then they get 30% of what was brought in for the extra hours. Jimstowing: I pay my employees strictly 35% commission here and they seem quite happy with it. I also pay on Mondays, they NEVER miss a Monday and by the time Friday comes around they are out of money so they figure that they might as well work the weekend!!!Timothy Peck - Owner Jim's Towing Monroe, Michigan WM040571 4/5 TRAA CT 1482 VegasValleyTowing: I think 10 an hr is a good pay that is 8-6pm then 30% after 6pm. Unknown: $10 bucks an hour thats $500 a week minus about 30% taxes=$350. Could you live on that? Single living at home maybe. Married 1 kid, wife works takes home about the same. Rent, daycare, food, insurance,gas, etc. I dont think so. Think I'll work at UPS, DHL, FEDEX don't have to lay under the truck or car. Nice uniforms, medical, and bennies OH yea! The folks say thanks when I drop off nice packages, and that better than gettin a tip. DragNTow: I pay my drivers 1/3 of what the truck makes. The theory is the driver gets 1/3, the truck gets 1/3, and the company gets 1/3. Storage charges are exempt from drivers commissions. All drivers start out with a $200.00 Christmas bonus the first year. (CASH). It goes up $100.00 each year.(OUCH) This is my incentive to work for me and not the competition! I guarantee a $300.00 base pay for 5 days work whether the phone rings or not. Seems to work well for me! Happy Haulin........DragNTow towincarz: I pay 30%, commission only. With the exception of my longest employee. He gets 3% more. The guys checks run anywhere between $1200 -$1600 every 2 weeks. I've aways believed, that if you pay drivers by the hour, they won't get anything done. Mind you, we have account work, and the cars are set up for you each day. No weekends, but work until your cars are picked up. TOWMAN27 : 30% of $18 isn't too good, especially at 3:00 am Many guys around my area driving 90 to 100 hours to make ends meet. Isn't that illegal and dangerous to the driver and the public? annettemcd: If you are paying with commission, how do you compensate drivers for GOA's, cancelled calls, impounds that are never claimed, etc? We pay hourly and if we send them on a tow, we pay them for their time, even if the job goes south on us. They might do well on 30% commission on the jobs that pay, but I do not want them deciding which jobs to take and which not to take and I do not want them to be mad at me or even question me because I send them on an impound in the middle of the night and it turned out to be a junker which will never be claimed. That is the company's problem and A.P. and I have to work it out with the Troopers or the customer. As it is, we have had drivers complain about wasted time, even though they are being paid. I guess that part of our situation is that with our distances, that we can drive 100 miles or more for a job with no income (it would be different if it was a simple job of jumping in the truck and going down the block) --you can be sure that we do everything that we can to avoid this, but it happens and it seems to happen more with off-peak hour calls. It is not the driver's fault or problem or choice or decision, it is the company's. We are also not high enough volume for this to balance out for the individual drivers. Unknown: I think my company pays fairly well compared to other companies in our area that lowball tows so its kinda hard to make good money when your tows are typically $5 to $15 more than the competition meaning it's hard to make this a good paying profession in our area when people keep towing cars for cheap$ but anyways we have a different system where we make $10 for an after hours call no matter what you do or what your hourly pay is for regular day hours. If I work for an hour or more I will pay myself $15 and sometimes I will use a combination of time spent on the call and the final bill total and figure 20 to 25% of the bill and how many hours worked x $16.50 for overtime for my standard hourly rate of $11 per hour and try to average the overtime and percent of final bill. For accidents and w/o's we pay $15 no matter what and if theres cleanup and additional work I'll make anywhere from $15 to $35 bucks for accidents. For a long distance after hours tow from Des Moines to Minneapolis (235 to 250m tow) I only pay myself 20% of the final bill and usually average $17 an hour for a 7.5 hour trip(not bad I think) My boss lets us pay what we think we deserve within reason and he has never not paid me what I put on my timesheet. If you have any questions about our on call pay just message me and I'll try to explain it better. Jim Krohn Ankeny Towing whether you support war or not please support our Troops and stay safe out there! POW MIA Unknown: I get paid 25% on tows 30% on service calls and tows back to our shop. 50% on the overnites 11pm-7am on anything i do. I love it. I stay busy except this time of year. If i dont make more than $9.00/hour during my shift from commissions then i get the $9.00/hour. Hodgiemomma: everyone is talking about pay well when does the owner of the company get a pay check i think im going to work just so i can see what a pay check looks like again lololol i pay my guys 40% of there night calls and there day time is salary at 450.00 a week and every thing after 6 pm that is 40% i think i will have to evaluate the numbers now that i now everyone else is only paying 25 % markacampbelljr: I pay my LD drivers 38% and they run boy! let me tell you. They average between $1200-$1600 checks every week. Before paying commission FSC goes to the company. The only problems I have is on GOA with my fuel costs and loose $$$ and we sometimes have drivers complain about getting to many wholesale account calls. But in saying that it all works out. I pay my HD drivers 30% on all regular calls again after FSC and $30.00 an hour on recoveries. Now I can't give you a solid average on their pay because we have only been doing HD since I started that side of the business 1.5 years ago and we are still growing but the highest check to a driver was $4300 and lowest was $700 but off a year basis they made 46k in our first year. My MD drivers get a split commission 38% on cars 30% for MD calls. My drivers are all very happy when we are busy, but gripe in spring and fall. But business is good since I walked in the door and started doing hard selling and training we have added 4 trucks to the fleet with four full time drivers, and added 2-4 part time drivers. I understand that my payroll expense is high compared to most of the other companies in this forum, but without reliable drivers our trucks are nothing more than lawn ornaments.
  8. Dtowingfl Wrote in December of 2009: First thing I will admit is I am not a tow guy. I come from an automotive background and the few recent months I have spent managing a tow company have been an eye opener for me. Long hours, lots of stress and tiny little profit margins seem par for the course! My situation is this. The co. I am working for does about 2000 calls a month, runs a fleet of 15 trucks including a medium, hvy and a landoll. They do some rotation work as well as have a small municpal contract. From what I have seen, they are not unlike alot of other towers. Problem (to me anyways) is that around 1000 of their tows a month are for AAA, with an average charge of $33 ea. We are bringing in about 125k a month in revenue and have 125k a month in expenses. Now of course all the new trucks they leased through Sterling a few years ago are miled up from all these low buck calls and are falling apart. To me, the writing is on the wall. If they keep up at this pace the fleet will deteriorate faster than the revenue comes in and this place will self destruct. I have done the math and if we dropped AAA cold turkey we would lose about 30k a month in revenue, but would actually drop 30k to 35k a month in expenses! This from what I gather is also not unlike many towers who blindly get sucked into the motor club business and never do the math to realize its not profitable. Problem is the owner is terrified to drop them. Try as I may I cannot get him to see the wisdom in letting go of this unprofitable, stress laden volume treadmill to focus on more profitable sources such as PPI's, commercial accounts and cash business. Have any of you found yourself in a similar position and how can you break someones irrational and destructive dependance on motor clubs before it takes them under? Adams Towing said: What are you going to do if those other sorces of income slow down? They always do. Maybe have a meating with your rep and discuss a better contract. If you are a quality provider for them they will understand you have to make a profit. You might be able to cut cost on your end as well, look at the big picture you might have more than one thing that you can cut back on. It's just my opinion but you got to do whats best for you. Dtowingfl said: Man you hit the nail on the head. I started towing for myself in 1996, and was contracted with all the motorclubs, and small P.D. Rotation list. I done this up till 2004, after the stress and costing me a mariage, I finally parked everything for about a year. During this time I was so scared that if I didnt have the calls the trucks would sit and I would have to pay the payments on the trucks out of pocket, so I thought I had to have the motor clubs to make the bacon to give it away. I only had 5 trucks now heavy nor landoll to make the other ends meet, just light duty, medium duty, and 2 service trucks that is not part of the 5 mention for battery service and what have you. Now since I have came back into the game through the divorce got to keep 3 trucks 2 paid for, and the service units, I am not as fast to contract, now I do contract with a hand full, but letting AAA go was a good thing no more stress no more reports of poor performance ect. Only thing I can say is good luck, I had people telling me the same thing for years of what you are trying to get across and never listen I knew best. How wrong I was after I add up what I lost in this process. wyomingtowpro said: You cannot make profit @ 33.00 per call. Those days are long gone. All you do is spin wheels and ware out trucks and drivers. This is a hard reality I faced at one point in my business, b4 I closed it. And fyi...it was closed due to wifes illness not financial issues. Now heres my suggestion. You must do a cost audit. In order to put thing in prospective you have to know basically what it cost to operate the truck (s). Luckily for me my wife is a accountant and auditor by trade. Once you have done a cost audit, you must cut your cost and eliminate unnecessary spending. Tighten the belt. You cannot operate a business without knowing the numbers and putting all you finances in prospective. Being able to sustain in business will be easier after you have done a cost audit. As far as AAA...You must contact them and explain your situation. Im sure there are other comapnies in your area that are on a waiting list to go tow at the same if not a cheaper rate. You can call them b4 you do a cost audit and possibly get a small increase that will give you some short term relief. But you have a better bargaining tool if you know where you need to be b4 you call them. Be prepaired for them to turn you down. Very few customers are loyal and compassionate to the needs of service providers. They have too many idiots that will work cheaper. You have to find out what it cost to operate, and set your rate based on that cost, and stick to it in order to make a profit!!!!!!! I found that it is truly ok, to fire a customer if they cannot or will not give you an increase based on you true cost of doing business. You will find that once you shed yourslef of the unnecessary expenses, and you get rid of the cheap rate customers you can keep you head above water. This may cause you to downsize your fleet. You need to replace the cheap customers with new customers. You will need to start a mass marketing campane in your service area. Both national accounts and local customers. Its a lot of work to turn a business around but with the support of the owner you can build a better model of the same company. If you need advise on cost audits and stragities give me a call. 6154895749. Jeff C. / Buffalo, Wyoming tlwtowing said: I think the total is a bit higher than 33.00, my brother gets more than that for a hook up with AAA. He has a repair shop also. I would say with enroute and loaded miles it has to be over 40. figure 40 dollars you have one hour of labor at 10.00 and 2 gals of fuel at 6.00 that leaves 24.00. 1 truck runs 10 calls that leaves 240.00 after fuel and wages. take out 15.00 for workmans comp and 11.00 for insurance you get 216.00 profit per truck. 216 times 30 = 6480.00 per truck minus 480.00 for maintenance equals 6000 dollars profit per truck per month. Provided you dont run out and buy all new equipment and watch you overhead I showed you your are making money. If you cant make it with each truck bringing in 6000 a month your living beyond your means. Insurance is based on what I pay for garage keepers 1,000,000 liability and 50,000 on hook at 330.00 a month. so if you run 600 calls a month the profit would be 12,000 dollars thats 2 trucks 10 calls a day heck even take out another 2,000 for rent and a part timer your still clearing 10,000 a month. Dtowingfl I think your math is off 2000 calls times 40 is 80,000. But lets say the do bring in 125,000 a month, I dont care if all the equipment is new the most in payments should be is 40,000. say 6,000 for insurance and 8,000 for fuel is 54,000. wages for 15 guys say average 500 a week. 30,000 thats 84,000. set aside 7500.00 for maintenance and 2500.00 for workmans comp now your up to 94,000. say 2,000 for rent and 3,000 for utilities your at 99,000. The owner is clearing 26,000 a month. maricle1 said: You are grossly under-insured if your on hook is only 50k,A king Ranch F-150 will cost that, Much less if you are carrying doubles.Your numbers in your example are also unrealistic for a tow.Try using REAL LIFE numbers and see if your still making a profit!!! The best advice I can give is do exactly as Jeff said and do a cost audit. Know what it cost you every time the key turns, every mile the truck runs factor in everything and contact the clubs be point blank let them know what you NEED to continue the level of service they have become accustomed to.I do this each and every year (my mom is a accountant and wife is going to college for it) So far No club has refused and if they did I'd drop them! really it's as simple as that YOU have to make a REAl profit and you can't make it by drivers for 10.00 like suggested.........Kenny Kenny Miracle ''Miracles Do Happen Here'' wyomingtowpro said: Nothing personal tlw towing, But....your math is wayyyyyyy off. He stated 2000 call a month and 1000 AAA were an "average of 33.00 per" And in your comparison math you need to remember that there are a lot of other expenses besides the obvious. A cost audit will require not only for you to look at quick books or your accounting programs accounts payable, but to look at the check book and see where you wrote checks that are not accounted for, and what about all those " Cash calls"?? All the expenses that you paid and didnt keep the receipt. A true cost audit will take you so deep in your personal and business finances that you will be amazed how you can save money once you look at EVERY DOLLAR you spent in physical 2009 vs EVERY DOLLAR you made in physical 2009. That Why you need to wait until after the year end. You need to do all 3..End of month books, End of quarter books, and the close out the year, get your taxes prepped and know what you tax liabilities are. The reason most businesses struggle is because they cant break the cycle of wasted spending ....and they don't look out side the box. My 1st cost audit was in my 3rd yr in business. I did 10 more after that. Every February after we closed all previous yrs books we re-ran the numbers. It made me a lean profitable business. In this economy you HAVE TOO budget not only personal finances but business finances as well, and stick to that budget not varying off course and spending money on eye candy items and wants ..Only spend on your needs and stop buying crap you don't need or can live without. tlw towing said: Kenny your thinking about what you pay for heavy haul, say even 100,000 on hook only adds 200 dollars a year to the insurance. and your not going to be hauling doubles for AAA. And how many jobs do you know of these days that start at 10 dollars an hour? If you re read what I posted I covered everything from fuel to maintenance to workmans comp to insurance. I am using real world numbers based on my state of ohio. And I was just using this as an example. I looked at my policy and I do have 100,000 on hook and I pay 330.00 a month for 9 months. that's all. So go ahead and add 2 or 3 dollars an hour to my example and you would still be making money. And I don't need a computer program telling me I am making money when I can figure that up myself. If you study what I laid out you are making money. does not take rocket science to figure that out. And I also used 40.00 a call net. 33.00 is unrealistic that is probally the hook up fee not counting enroute or loaded. And what tax liabilities? If you show the IRS every dollar you bring in you wont be in business long. Back to you kenny if you cant make it making even 5,000 clear per truck I don't know what to tell ya your living to large buddy. In Memory of Charlie Amann who said: i run hard and i make money all motor clubs started 5yrs ago with 3 trucks now we have 15 trucks all motor clubs i reinvested the money in the business so i make money doin it too wyomingotwpro said: There are ways that you can deduct , depreciate , and write off...on your taxes. I never made any mention to the above quote , and never will. Any atempts to Cook da Books, is a risk you may choice to take, but not me, my freedom is not going to be taken away because of my need for greed and illegal business practice. Yes ur CPA may have some creative adjustments with in the letter of the law but im not gonna push that envelope. Anyway..... I do not care who you are...Top Level Patron and Sponser on Tow 411, newby or old school tower, greenhorn business owner or United Freeking Road Towing Nationwide anybody ..YOU AINT MAKING PROFIT @ 33.00 OR @ 40.00 DOLLARS A CAR. You might make crap loads of money when u hide it from the irs and screw uncle sam his part''...You have lost ur mind to go out and buy 15, 20, 40 , 60 trucks at todays intrest rates on installment payment or one of those sucker i c u coming leases and haul for that cut throat rate..... the comments in this post are mine and only mine which under the 1st amendment of our constitution are afford me be out spoken on this post... tlw towing said: Wyomingtowpro, I showed you that you can make money at the 40 dollar average. If your too blind to see it I cant help you. Obviously Charlie is making money. And you also put the cart before the horse and assumed someone run out and bought or leased 15 trucks. I know charlie and he is exactly like I am. You buy used, pay cash, and rebuild them from the ground up. A heck of a lot cheaper than payments. Its obvious you went down this road and failed hence the bitterness toward club work. The are folks who do club work and those who dont. Its all a choice that the individual makes. My company is growing, Charlies is growing, And my brother has been running AAA for 25 years so somebody must know how to make some money. And guess what we didnt need a program to tell us how to do it. Maricle1 said: From 50k to100k cost me 358.00 a year per Truck.On my heavy I carry 250k. My total premium for 12 months is over 16,000 for 5 trucks.For this state it's a good rate as I just shopped it and no one could match it.You'veer gotten a AAA call and the member was pulling a trailer?My drivers make 20.00 per hour and 25% after 6pm.Hell the guy that mops my shop floor makes 14.00 per hour.(And worth every dime)A employee being paid 14.00 p/h with matching with holding will cost the employer around 20.00 P/h .You example does not show all cost of doing business.And it doesn't take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to figure it out.(Office phone,cc processing,lights,cell phones for drivers,computers for the office and the list goes on)I'm not saying you can't make it on Motor clubs.I'm saying you have to be paid for what you do and what your worth.I do everything above board. I do not hide money from the IRS.They have no sense of humor,So you don't play games with them or you will not be in business long.As for me ,I will not be content making 5000.00 per truck,If I should have made 15,000 per truck.I charge for what I do and what I'm worth and what my guy's are worth and I've been pretty sucessful doing so.It's about MAKING it.It'sut GROWING AND PROSPERING.You can make it working at WalMart. AS FOR LIVING TOO LARGE,I DON"T THINK SO!! I own my equipment and shop and homes outright no bank note attached and I pay my help a wage, they can raise their families off of. And I even pay my TAXES and not try to cheat the goverment.In my opinion,It's people running for pennies, when they should be charging dollars that have hurt this industry and have forced many a great company out but that's for another topic.Bottom line is if your going to give examples, Give accurate, complete examples and if you don't know ask someone that does.Someone on here will know.........Kenny Kenny Miracle ''Miracles Do Happen Here'' wyomingtowpro said: Let me say up front ..I have never, and will never as an owner or (previous owner) worked for AAA or any other motorclub. My 13 years in business was not a failure, It was a choice to close it, when my wife was on her death bed in the hospital. And the long recovery was more important that making money. I feell very comfortable in my financial status in life, and choose to werk smart and not hard for a 40.00 reward. I relocated to Wyoming and started plans for retirement. Back in the early 70's my father was the owner of a large company in Nashville, rates were 17.50 local, in mid late 70's i can remember 22.50 and 25.00 per car. Rates went up over the years until in the late 80's AAA started this crap of dangling volume werk for cut throat rates. He never did it either. Now I know for a fact that there is a company in Nashville who is one of those AAA premium service vendors. He has 9 rollback, 5 self loaders, 1 med 1hvy, 1tator, 4 equipment haulers. I have heard he say, and i quote..." Need more werk," hard to make payroll, ect..This is because he chooses to work AAA at 23.oo starting rate. Brother those rate went out the window along with Disco, and urban cowboy fades. I work as an employee in a place where everyone has AAA. We see about 250 to 300,000 visitors a year by car come thru here going to Yellowstone, and about 25,000 to 30,000 RV's a year. My employeer DOES DO ALL Motorclubs. BUT>>>>>>>>the start rate in 50.00 plus mileage. There are no sweetheart deals here, and even RV Plus rates @ 150.00 per hour to start. One motor club / dispatch forwarder CCM 55.00 plus 3.50 a mile one way. Im a heavy duty operator, I do very little light duty towing , but in a bind ill jump in a truck and gogogo. The rates are "fair" Ive gone 3o miles out on a gas call it pays about (to the company) 137.50. I have told thge owner , if its a 40 dollar call and I'm on 30% dont wake me up at 2am for 12.00. That's some crap..... I have alway been a believer that the business I own is just that , Its mine. I refuse to let ANY potential client or customer tell me what they are gonna pay me to do a job. If they need my service to do a job, they will be given a rate. If they don't like it, shove it. go find that guy that runs junk equipment, has untrained and non-certified drivers come work for you. Get paid for the job based on fairness not based on whatthey are willing to give you. They don't and never will have your best intrest at heart!!! Everyone has the right to run their business as they see fit . If you are making money good for you. If you choice to buy junk equipment, rebuild junk equipment and do cut rate towing and be under insured or rite at the legal limit, good for you. You have to account for your time u spend in that business, and I place a great value on my time. You have spent a great deal of time werking on that junk equipment to make it road worthy , to do towing for A 40.00 rate that was obsolete in the early 90's. good for you. Best of luck in your business as you spend time turning wrenches, rebuilding junk equipment for that a 40.00 tow.... Unknown Member said: My head hurts from all this reading,and we are at the same place in this discussion that we were in the beginning! Can't we all just get along? wyomingtowpro said: I can get along with any one, I'm not a Hater at all, but i also reserve my rite to speak my mind as does the other members on this post. I do feel that is not gonna change anything. In every industry you will always have some one who chooses to do a job cheaper. That's a trend nationwide. Why some people will work for almost nothing is beyond me but if it works for you by all means be that guy who cuts the rates to get he job or work for those customers who dictate how you run ur business by demanding or strong arming you to accept thier rates or not get the job. When you surcome to thier demand you might as well hand the the keys to everything you own, because they now run your business when you allow them to set your rates .I just refuse to accept chump change for a job that should pay a fair market rate.... Randall L Dawson said: Every time a tower finds out that doing motor club work is at best a break even venture and asks how to drop them , the same couple of " m/c cheer leaders " post how they make money doing m/c calls , which was NOT the question the gentleman asked. I'd prefer not to have to pay taxes either but , I don't want Bernie Madeoff as my roommate. Please work safe, We've lost to many already this year. Randy. Maricle1 said: Yes Sir,I wonder if they are not the motor club reps sometimes or just have really bought into the BS that some clubs feed them.I actually do make some off of M/C calls though.Only because I refuse their rates and they agree to mine.I still face the same issues as everyone else that does club work.The ever present short pays!!!!!! Kenny Kenny Miracle ''Miracles Do Happen Here'' jal70 said: All, A few items which are being left out of this post, which offer a slightly different viewpoint..... First, I would respectfully disagree with the original author of this topic in that mc business is a "habit". I am wondering if he is aware of the sheer volume of work globally that the mc industry represents?? Between CCMC, Signature, Geico, NSD, RAMC, Asurion and various others, estimated annual dispatch volume is in excess of 7.5 million episodes and this does not take into consideration AAA... It would be very difficult to imagine that this level of business is a habit or would simply evaporate, when you truly understand the value these products delivery to the clients. Additionally, much has been made about low rates as compared to retail, but again here the " entire" picture is not being painted for the community, so let me help. Most of the rates being discussed here are NOT the avg total invoice amount being paid for the service rendered, obviously we are all aware that typically club contracts offer a rate PLUS both en-route and loaded miles. When these amounts are paid for services over time, you will realize that the avg revenue per service is considerably higher than simply pointing out the base rate. Of course the mc industry is aware that the rates are not retail, however with the aformentioned dispatch episodes, we would be considered a corporate account in any industry, warranting some preferred rate be negociated between the parties. This is common practice in almost every business within automotive, towing and just about any B2B I can think of at the moment. Let us also not forget the opportunity that additional exposure to mc clients bring your businesses, for example to name a few: Driving repair shop refferals to your shop or perhaps a shop you may have a business arrangement with, opportunity to market your retail services to these customers, mobile battery sales, tire sales (commerical lines) , collision repair refferals, specialty vehicle towing (heavy , cycles), etc... In the end, this is a business decision which must be made by knowing all the facts about your own operation and what type of accounts mc's can be. But let's please not paint all mc's with the same brush... As with towing operations, not all mc's are created equally.... Joseph tlw towing said: Joe, Its like this, Most dont realize between motor clubs and insurance control 60% or better of the tow volume. And Allstate is giving away memberships now that will bump the number up some. Its the evolution of the industry. Ever changing. Some of these guys will let evolution pass them by. fairway said: Yes, m/c's should be warranted a preffered rate, I would say it should be about 70 to 75% of the retail rate, not 30 to 40% like it is. What is a common % off of retail for wholesale customers? 25% or 65%? Also, the percentage off of retail should be based on the actual volume received, not promised. If you are feeding me one call a day, you should get less of a discount than a customer feeding me 15 calls a day. Also don't forget that along with the generous discounts and preferred rates, you are also not paying at the time of service. Maricle1 said: I agree motor clubs control a percentage of tow volume However,The real problem is many towers are naive and think they are making money at the low rates clubs pay.If all towers stood their ground and demanded a decent pay scale,The clubs would have no choice or they would go out as they would have no contractors doing their calls.The sad fact is they contract with other company's and pay their contractor less then half of what they collect in many cases.I contract with quite a few clubs but,only ones I can make a fair profit on.There is no sense in doing a call and only making 3-4 dollars profit,It's nuts!!!! I think we all understand clubs have to make a profit.Now they need to realize, we require profit to.Personally I dislike motor clubs,I feel like they are a cancer sucking the life out of the industry.Many calls that use to pay a decent rate like wrecks are now handled by motor clubs and a low ball rate.Dealership tows same thing.It just blows my mind at the number of towers, who just pucker up to these clubs and agree to do calls for less then half of retail on a promise of great volume.It just seems some of you THINK your making money, when in fact Clubs are taking MONEY right out of your pockets By involving themselves with accidents,Transports from storage yards,and such.They are tapping into the only real profit source we as towers have and putting OUR PROFIT IN THEIR POCKETS.Bottom line is they don't know your goals,overhead,or your business plan They shouldn't be dictating your rates. Joe ,Since you do seem to have answers for everything.What is the AVERAGE profit clubs make per call ? I really don't think you'd let the clubs little secrets out.The clubs seem to have a pretty good idea how much profit we make so why is it a kept secret what they make?I'm pretty sure though,It's possible to pull up a financial for them that should show payouts and profits. Kenny Miracle ''Miracles Do Happen Here'' Original Topic Creator Dtowingfl said: Whoah, looks like this thread got a bit of discussion going! Thanks to everyone for their input and thoughts. For any who took offense, I wasnt intending to bash any M/C's, its just that as a stand alone tower with no repair facility or body shop, I have seen no way for us to make money running these $30 and under calls. More importantly, I was stunned by the degree of denial that the owner was in and after investigating it a bit, it seems that many towers have the same mindset and have grown dependant on the M/C cashflow without understanding how detrimental it is to the health of their company. Finally it seems after making it clear that M/C's generate 30% of his revenue but encompass 60% of his expenses, he has finally stopped drinking the kool-aid and agreed to shed some overhead. I'll resurrect this thread in 3 months or so and post the results from dropping over half our M/C business actually accomplishes. Wish me luck! Falcon1 said: I worked for a towing company that had over 75 units on the road, after a year of doing no M/C calls we noticed that we did less calls BUT that we were available for the retail customer! Calls were down, income did'nt change and profits were up! DodgeTowGuy134 said: Ok, I will chime in foe a brief moment, Wile I do TOTALLY agree with those who said that you need to know what your operating costs are, I agree with the Road America rep, that NOT all motor clubs are equal, as one club for one tower may be the best ever, they may be the worse for another tower that is many states away in a different region. That said, I think that a business owner/accountant/office manager, SHOULD know the cost of doing business and know that is costs $$$ per call to do a call and even go as far as knowing that you need to make $$$ per mile/per minute, etc and then when calls come in base yates on your cost plus your profit margin to determine what you charge per call. Now, with motor clubs, I agree that since they do send some volume and we can market other services to their custoomers, that they get a discount. A also agree with what was said that you have to also include not only the base rate of a call, but also the enroute/loaded mileages, cause if you get a very high enroute and/or loaded mileage rate, then it can offset a little lower on-scene rate, BUT... I do agree with the other towers that the motor clubs should NOT strong arm us towers into things like including taxes in the base rate of a call, cause in our area we charge tax based on the county rate ans we service 5 counties, all with different rates and additionally, it is ILLEGAL for the tax to be included in the base rates of a call and tax MUST be calculated seperate and shown as such as according to state law. The exception is items such as gasoline and diesel fuel.. Additionally, I agree that motor clubs should get a discount, but NOT a 75% discount, as that is just too much.. They should get a 25% discount base and then if the volume over that month is really high, then they can get a higher discount for those calls due to increased volume sent to the tower. This was already stated by "fairway".. Another thing about motor clubs, is that I TOTALLY DISAGREE with them putting in their contracts and "requiring" a tower to accept a certain percentage of calls from them and if they cant accept a call that it counts against a tower... Come On!!! Some days we the towers are running our rears off cause we are soo busy, and work is sometimes more than we can do or days without a call, so if we cant run a call for whatever reason, then sorry, but it should NOT count against a tower in a negative way and that in turn affects the overall rating of the tower and then the motor club sends lett business to the tower... cause during the blizzard we had here this winter, we had to take certain calls over others due to many reasons, from priority due to safety/location of the vehicle to be serviced, to it being a car stuck in the driveway of the custoomer isnt a high priority compared to a car that has a yound single mother with a newborn baby that slid off into the ditch... I think that motor club reps SHOULD be polite and understanding and actually, really LISTEN to towers and not just blow them off, now some motor clubs reps do, but others dont, as I have my #1 motor club and their rep works with us, but another motor club we just dropped cause their rep was an overall "asshole" and he wouldnt listen to us and would ACTUALLY hang up on us, not return phone calls or emails, so we dropped them!... So, this is my lil ramble on the subject to start my day off, now back to morning office stuff before the day gets rolling! ~later yall tlw towing said: I agree with you Dodgetowguy. They want you to do a certain percentage or your volume goes down. Had that happen to me also. I talked to my rep and due to me having the shop opening next week I decided to cut down some of my zips. I decided to do zips that keep me 30 minutes of my shop or about a 10 mile radius. That way acceptance will go up since I am one man and I wont be stretched to thin. On a brighter note I towed in an engine job to start on next week. Man I would have to do a lot of tows for the labor thats paying me.
  9. DrHook541 posted article: Harold Hamon liked to start his days with breakfast at a small establishment near 198 Street and 57 Avenue. It was almost always eggs Benedict with tea or milk. He didn’t drink coffee. Then the owner of the Langley-based Hamon’s Towing & Recovery would head out in search of breakdowns and other people needing assistance. When family and friends decided to organize a memorial drive for Hamon, they agreed it should begin at his favorite restaurant. At least 35 tow trucks and one ambulance have said they will participate. It will start 9 a.m. Sunday at the cafe, pass by Hamon’s home and proceed along the Langley Bypass before ending at the Fort Langley Community Hall on Glover Road, where a public memorial service will be held at 1 p.m. The 57-year-old Hamon died after he was injured in a two-vehicle crash on the Langley Bypass on Friday March 11. He had a reputation as a hard-working, big-hearted man who would never leave anyone by the road, even if they had no money to pay. Two of his brothers will operate his company, something Hamon asked for in his will. RESOURCE LINK After everything he’d been through, the collision that sent Harold Hamon to hospital didn’t seem so serious to his family. Over the last 10 years, Hamon, the 57-year-old owner of Hamon’s Towing & Recovery in Langley, had dealt with diabetes, the amputation of his right leg, kidney failure and the aftereffects of open heart surgery that left him clinically dead for just over four minutes. A shattered hip was not a small matter, but it didn’t seem like anything the resilient Hamon couldn’t recover from. Hamon suffered the injury when his blue Ford F350 pickup was hit by a white Chevrolet panel van around 9 a.m. Friday (March 11) on the Langley Bypass east of the 200 Street intersection. According to police, the van was making an illegal left-hand turn onto the bypass when the collision occurred. The force of the crash sent the Ford into a ditch, injuring Hamon and his passenger. The first thing Hamon did was reach for his cellphone. He was still inside the damaged truck when he called his brother. “Ron, you better get down here,” he said. “A guy just cut me off. I’m cut pretty bad.” Eyewitness Tressa Japp saw the blue Ford F350 pickup truck spin out of control and land in a ditch. “The smoke started billowing out of the front of the [Ford] truck,” said Japp, a First Aid instructor from Boston Bar who rushed to assist the injured occupants of the pickup. “The driver was more lucid than the passenger,” Japp told The Times. “They both had serious head trauma.” Both men were rushed to hospital by ambulance. When Hamon’s sister Lorraine went to see him in hospital, she said he was in considerable pain, and fretting about the fate of the other people involved. “I didn’t kill anybody, did I?” he asked. In fact, the driver of the van walked away from the crash and Hamon’s passenger was treated and released. “You don’t need to worry,” Lorraine told her brother. It was, the family says, typical of Hamon to worry about others more than himself. They describe him as a hard-working big-hearted person who would tow people even if they were broke, telling them to pay him when they could. “He never left anyone high and dry,” says brother Ron, who occasionally drove for Hamon’s towing company. Hamon, one of 11 kids, spent almost his entire life living and working in the town where he was born. He never married, but he had many nieces and nephews, and they adored their uncle, who liked to build slick, fast cars and trucks. His pride and joy was the 800 horsepower street-legal 1964 Ranchero with the black cherry paint job. There was also a bright blue 1980 Chevy short-box pickup that he built with his brother Terry. Most of all, Hamon loved his job. He liked to keep working. He would go out in all kinds of weather, even working Christmas Day. About 10 years ago, a dropped dolly caused a foot injury that turned into an infection and led to the amputation of his right leg. It barely slowed him down. He did need an assistant to help him hook up vehicles, and every now and then, his artificial leg would fall off, likely because he was losing weight. Hamon would simply put the errant metal limb back on and carry on like nothing out of the ordinary had happened. The failed attempt to quell the infection in his leg with antibiotics is believed responsible for the kidney failure that required dialysis treatments four times a week. About 14 months ago, Hamon underwent open heart surgery, and his heart stopped beating for about four minutes after the operation. He survived and quickly returned to work, with a doctor’s note that allowed him to drive without a seatbelt post-surgery. A week before the crash, Hamon was discharged from hospital where he’d been treated for pneumonia. He was back at work half an hour later. Hamon died Sunday morning, just hours before he was scheduled to undergo surgery on his hip. The family said an autopsy has been ordered to determine the cause of death. Meanwhile, the police investigation of the crash continues. Both vehicles have been seized and will undergo mechanical inspections. Langley RCMP said charges are being contemplated. RESOURCE LINK nrctower said: I hate to hear of any one passing away like that especially when it is one of our fellow tow operators our thoughts and prayers to all involved RRRequest Towing and Recoveryjjjjj iiiiiiRoanoke Va 540-309-6640mmm Acestowing said: Very sad to hear. Thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends... Bryce Weber - Aces Towing WM 091409 Level 6/7 1-519-889-3350 Associated Towing said: Thoughts and prayers to a fellow towers family getuone2x said: Thoughts and prayers Larry Styba said: Dwayne I see it was a great turn out for the procession and a packed house for the memorial. I never met the man but he always waved when he passed by. Impressed again at how the industry can unite for a common cause Cya In the Ditch Larry Styba WM# 011088 Randy1 said: Thought's and prayer's with all involved.
  10. This is an Alberta Roll Call which ran on Tow411 in 2007: How many of these members are still around? 583 from the Bow Valley, Montreal - QC - ca Camtow, Camrose, AB Canada - - CA Cooter64 ,Sundre - Alberta - AB - ca gaqrdenfan JR here from City Haul Andrew aka giggles88 with Double L towing Sherwood Park alberta HeavyHook Chestermere, Alberta Jody aka kama with Big Time Towing and Recovery in Bonnyville Alberta Ray, L&L Southside in Cold Lake, Alberta Red Deer Steve aka wm93197 owner-opperator of Fairview Towing. Fairview is between Peace River and Grande Prairie. White Knight Towing Robin aka wm050915 in beautiful downtown Cowley Alberta This is an British Columbia Roll Call which ran on Tow411 in 2007: DrHook541 - Surrey - BC - ca Divor located in westbank Jim aka Caribu907 from Williams Lake Doug aka "Oldtrucks" Maple Ridge Towing Gigarange located in Victoria Larry Styba - Pitt Meadows BC Vanhook located in Surrey Abinator from Dawson Creek, BC
  11. More Images: Danny Cassello said: wow, some parts look like a Holmes but yet I do not believe it is. I would guess possibly a Stringfellow wrecker unit. michael212 said: Nice! I'm not sure what it is. It could be a early Ashton or Canfield unit? It appears to mostly be all there which is a good sign. Are there any riveted on data plates that are still on the unit? maybe post some photos of the winch and boom winch. That might give a idea depending on the design. Michael Myers 253.588.1757 ext 150 kynick said: Possibly No-Mar Nick Schade Original Post Creator Added: This is the only identifying marking I could find "Tennessee USA" stamped on the inside of one of the mast pillars. Main winch Looking over the main winch at one of the boom winches. Spanky over on stovebolt said he thought it looked to be assembled from different units, maybe an Ashton mast, Stringfellow Booms, and a Hubbard service body. I've been looking at a lot of images, and the booms with the center boom is most like a Canfield than any I've ever seen. But I've only seen one image of a Canfield and it wasn't very detailed. But to me it looks like a Canfield is a better fit than a Holmes. I've not seen any Holmes with this boom configuration. I haven't been able to see any definitive images of an Ashton or Hubbard wrecker, or a Stringfellow for that matter. I wasn't able to locate any images of a No-Mar or Nomar that looks like this. The Nomar double booms that I was able to find hooked into the very bottom of the masts. This setup is near the center of the masts. The masts of the Nomars I was able to see were also much thicker, square and heavier duty than this mast. If you could find some pictures to compare that would be helpful. shelbart said: it looks like rube goldberg had something to do with it. mm212 said: looks like it used to be a holmes, but someone took the winches out.
  12. These Canadian Members joined the Towing Information Network and created an Introduction in 2009. Brutus: enough " lurking " getting on the board now lol, med. / heavy operator from vernon bc canada . been towing 17 years , i'm lvl 2/3 wreckmaster , hopefully 4/5 comes in spring married 12 years with 7 yr old son who loves wreckers. this site has been extremely helpful with " how-to's" and " don't do that's" . Wayne Feenstras: Hi from Wyoming, Ontario, Canada. My names Jamie and I drive for my Dad's company, Feenstra's Towing. Here are a couple of pics I have on my computer: Metro Towing wrecker before and after paint Stapley Towing Asked: Welcome from Campbellford ON, were the heck is Wyoming Ontario? LOL Trucks look great, keep me posted on the Metro and how it works, I like those little wreckers Feenstras: We're out by Sarnia near the Port Huron, Michigan border. Its only 4 and 3/4 hours away from you. Freak: Hello From The Great White North In the business for a couple of years...new to Tow411. Checking out the posts and have learned quite a few new things...look forward to more. Supermike: Hello from Québec Hi my name is Michel I m not in the business but I love trucks and tow trucks. I discover this site some time ago but never post...not easy in anglish for me... very nice place to learn from every body.
  13. What has changed since 2003? NC has a new law that became effective 10/01/2003, The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts: SECTION 1. G.S. 20- 77(d) reads as rewritten: (d) An operator of a place of business for garaging, repairing, parking or storing vehicles for the public in which a vehicle remains unclaimed for 10 days, or the landowners upon, whose property a motor vehicle has-been abandoned for more than 30 days, shall, within five days after the expiration of that period, report the vehicle as unclaimed to the Division. Failure to make such report shall constitute a Class 3 misdemeanor. Persons who are required to make this report and who fail to do so within the time period specified may collect other charges due but may not collect storages charges for the period of time between when they were required to make this report and when the actually did send the report to the Division by certified mail. Any vehicle which remains unclaimed after report is made to the Division may be sold by such operator or landowner in accordance with the provisions relating to the enforcement of liens and the application of proceeds of sale of Article 1 of Chapter 44A.'1 . Before 10/01/2003 the person authorizing the tow had to file the papers with DMV
  14. Topic created on Tow411 by secrestwrecker in July of 2007: Well we received a call from a local feed mill today. They stated that they needed us to tow a train . After we got over the initial shock of hearing that we found out that their switcher had caught on fire, so they needed us to pull it and the four cars it was hooked to back down the tracks so our crane could pick it up and load it on a trailer. All four cars were loaded. We took W-53, our 72 KW with the 50 ton Grant/Holmes boom. We ran a line off of the drag winch to the front car, and pulled everything backwards by driving down the service road on the side of the tracks. It couldn't even tell anything was behind it. Dualie said: How did you get it stopped? Did you have to put air to the cars to get them rolling? secrestwrecker said: The yard supervisors were on hand when we did this, they stayed on the cars and used the manual brakes to stop everything, we went very slow also, low gear at an idle, to keep things from getting away from us. Dualie said: Awesome. thats one mean looking KW i like it!
  15. Topic Originally Created by Rahag in December of 2007: These are a couple we have done this year Was going through some pics and found. Thought you all might like. Jamie Dougherty Boy what eber that chassis is next to the last picture had a rough life. looks like what is left of a freightliner JAMIE DOUGHERTY JANEWAY TOWING kyresqtow said: It's only half a truck... keeps the weight down Rahag said: The white Freightliner in the second pic is one our driver took care of for us. we relocated the body and just sold what was left of the cab for scrap.
  16. Topic Created by Orcas Tow in December of 2007: Had some snow this morning after a freezing night, roads were slippery, I was in the truck from 7am-5pm. This was my second call, the young lady driver found herself out of control & decided to unbuckle & jump rather than ride it out, she said she got caught up in the belt with the door open but was able to free herself & land on the road before her car went 50' over a steep embankment to be stopped by a tree, lucky girl, dumb luck. Two lines, one to the front control arm & one to the rear, easy money. Orcas Tow said: Oh yeah it was the boyfriends uninsured car too, at least she paid me, guessing the boyfriend didn't make out so well... kyresqtow said: Oh I am sure he will be gettin paid one way or another
  17. Topic Started by an unknown member in December of 2007: This steel was scattered down the tracks for about a mile This truck is next to were the trailer ended up In a u shape It had to be cut into three pieces to be loaded on a landoll And here is Carrot Top doing what he does best (stand around and watch) Bill Paymard said: Wow, what a mess. Hope the tractor owner has some good insurance. wreckerman05 said: how long did it take to do the clean-up ??? the recovery would not have been to bad,but that metal would have taken quite awhile to get picked-up--good looking trucks you have also---
  18. Topic Originally Created by wreckmster in June of 2007: ere are some photos of trucks no longer with us. Our First wrecker... "HOOK" GMC with a 30 ton Wreckmaster rig Our second truck "THE BOSS" It was a slug. 318 Detroit engine(no turbo) with a 30 ton Wreckmaster rig with extendable booms. Our third truck. "BEAR" GMC with 25 ton Wreckmaster rig Early Fleet photo That's little ole me on the left with the baseball hat. My brother is next to me, then my father followed by two former employees. truck 4 Newer cab and chassis on original 30 ton Wreckmaster bed (loud Air starter) LOL Truck 6 we built for my brother. It was a 1980 brigadier and had a 25 ton wreckmaster rig with custom length booms. they were about 2 ft longer than the standard boom. Great towing unit Truck 6 is towing my first truck I built and drove.Which I drilled many a hole in the frame to build. Frame drills were heavy back then. It is also a Brigadier, but had the 30 ton body with the extendable booms from truck 2. My truck is being towed because I had a severe knee injury and would be out of work for awhile. He was towing it back to the shop. GMC General 30 ton unit (great truck) I spent most of my time in this unit. Our most disappointing truck 97 Freightliner with 25 ton Jerrdan unit I'll see If I can find some other pics FMS Mike said: Awesome Pics!!! Them are some hosses!! Michael ------Michael Vibert------- Da Wash Boss said: Those are some really nice trucks. Were you guys one of wreck masters biggest customers,,,,, Just some really nice units there. That road boss looks good as does the General. I notice in the first picture that "N" model Ford box truck in the background,, thats a nice truck also. Thanks for sharing you guys paid your dues over the years, nice trucks then and some nice ones now as well. Good luck in the future. Danny Cassello - TRPC - East Hartford, CT OldHolmes460user said: very nice collection of pics. How old is your family business? underdog said: Those were all great trucks. Bet you wish you kept at least one of them! Stay safe, Rich. wreckmster said: Thanks for the comments. Our Business was established in 1976. I do wish we still had the GMC General. All around good towing and winching truck. Rode like a brick though with the Hendrickson rears.. (Ouch) Gale25yrs said: Why was the Freightliner such a disappointment? Too heavy? wreckmster said: The Freightliner was just a trouble truck. It was cheaply made. The doors echo'd when you closed them. The visor kept falling off and cracking the roof. For some odd reason it squatted really easy even with increased air ride pressure. It had one of the early style Jerrdan rigs with the older lift cylinders. You know the ones that if you moved the boom under load and it was out of it's channel, the boom would shift and take out the fog light. You could use the winches, but not the boom under load. We had alot of problems with the rear axles. We would go through about 2 axles a year and that was with a good operator. It towed pretty well though, just wasn't very dependable. It struggled with dropped trailers and since the boomed moved, I was hesitant on send it out. I just cut my losses and sold it for a bigger truck. The tandem axle Pete/35 ton Jerrdan we replaced it with has been a good combination so far for the most part. Michael212 said: Thanks For Sharing! It's always pretty cool to see where you started and see where your at today. Keep up the Good Work! Michael Myers Heavytowman12 said: You had nice equipment back then just like you do now. Wreckmaster made a real nice rig.Operated one for a few years on a Autocar.Those Briggaders were real poplar trucks then. Bet you wish you still had one of those. Just for keep sake! fredstowingnj said: I remember the old Wreckmaster plant in Cranbury,NJ. Da Wash Boss said: Hey Fred, I never knew thats where the wreck master plant was. If I remember correctly I think Roadmasters Towing had some dodges or gmcs with wreck master units on them. I am not sure thought maybe you would know if not I bet Steve or Bob remembers. They were nice trucks. Danny Cassello - TRPC - East Hartford, CT geartow said: now if i could find parts for a wreckmaster 25 ton id love it FredsTowingnj said: Don't really know much about RoadMasters Steve or Bob would know more then me.But yes Wreckmaster's plant was on Cranbury South River Road in Cranbury,NJ Auto Rescue said: Worse yet I remember when they built it Recovery Inc said: Those wreckmasters looked alot like Holmes were they close in competition. Great pics thanks for showing. Chris Fontaine Interstate Towing Da Wash Boss said: QUOTE: "Those wreckmasters looked alot like Holmes were they close in competition." They may have looked close and they were great units but,,,,, There is nothing that comes close to a holmes. How many agree with me on that about Holmes. Danny Cassello - TRPC - East Hartford, CT wreckmster said: not much of a difference between the two really. The Wreckmaster winches were backwards.....basically they were practically duplicates. I wouldn't say Holmes was any better or worst.. I personally put my Wreckmasters to the test. They faired very well.. wstowing11 said: Bringing back memories of riding with Dad and the other guys when I was a little kid. When we sold them old trucks we really wanted to get the newer ones at the time, but it sure would be nice to have a few of them around to remember the good ol days !!
  19. Topic Originally Posted by Wreckman0920 in April of 2010: Just some random shots of the trucks and then I guess the model as some would call them Towthis2002 said: That happened during set-up at a training school. It was not over loaded. John wanted to show people the damage and what could have happened if one of your blocks is damaged on a recovery. WILDWOOD JACK said: What happened to cause that block to come apart? Acestowing said: Thanks for sharing some photos, Its been 4 years since I've been down, I definetly don't remeber seeing those ladies there! I'm curious on the block also? Bryce Weber - Aces Towing WM 091409 Level 6/7 WreckMan0920 said: I was hoping that someone from miller would explain the failure of the block in full but i will give the short version they where doing an upright on a t\t for a class when they started the lift this block failed and shot it up and over the casulality and landed between the tractor and trailer, when they found both pieces it was discovered that the piece on the sheve where the pin screws down onto it had two small cracks that caused the failure. If this is incorrect i hope that someone will correct me
  20. Topic Originally Created by 13thrattler in May of 2003: In the morning, I am going to hold another safety meeting, before the busy weekend begins, and we get scattered all over the state. I intend to re-cover the same topics. Safety vest Safety cones Overhead lights Operating controls from right side Use e-brake and scotch blocks Check fire ext. Re-stock first aid kits Backing up on shoulder Keep you mind on the task at hand (look at the girls latter) DON'T SPEED For the roll-backs Always use proper tie down holes (furnished there by the factory for a reason.) Two tie downs on rear (no exceptions) Safety chains or straps on front (in case something happens to the winch) Use mini-J, rocker, or T-hooks (don't need any torn C/V boots from J-hooks). For the W/Ls Check the condition of the tires on the ground Use W/L straps Use tow lights (if broke fix it now) Flats Move the vehicle off the road if possible Jack and jack stand Never let the customer help (if they could do it, we wouldn't be there) Accident scene Rubber gloves (aids and other things) Watch out for all the lookers (accidents are people magnets) Get the vehicle off the road first Clean roadway, and other debris, only if police are in control of traffic Check hook-up before leaving scene Again--don't let people help. OK folks------can you think of anything I should add to this list? Gilbert Freelance66 said: From where you are at, drinking plenty of fluids (preferably cold). And maybe having cold water for teh customer that was stuck in 100+ for an hour. That helps with referals later too....... Wes Wilburn said: wow that is a big list!... and all great points as well. just a suggestion to consider... maybe break those points down and try to mention them all, but then go in detail on some of them.. just a suggestion, Wes jrm698 said: good list keep it going!!! here are a few recovery's + flatbeds - always stand ( and others stand) more than the length of wire rope away, incase it snaps - never stand behind the car when winching it up the bed - when on the side ofthe road, the customer must be in the truck w/ his seat belt on - never operate the truck on the side of traffic - when on the sceen of an incident always pull off to the side out of the way, talk to the officer, wait for the go ahead, then plan your attack, the hook up, check the no's, exicute. -Jim WM 6/7B Be Safe Out There TowZone said: A long time ago I used to do just that and advise the customer they could sit in the cab while the vehicle was being recovered. But, I stop that due to there being more incidents which could occur that would had they been standing off the roadway. In the past 10 years I have not left anyone alone in the cab for more then a minute, then I was right next to the door. Once you've had things stolen from your cab you'll understand my reasons. 13thrattler said: Nov. 2008 WOW, how did this one come back to life? Gilbert TowZone said: Have the Safety Meetings continued? Have you checked your list and are you going to check it twice. Do you know who has been naughty and who has been in compliance? 13thrattler said: Ron, as of 7 months ago, my partner and I parted company. I could not afford to buy out his side of the business (the salvage yard), so, I sold him all my older trucks (4), I kept the '05 F650, and I am now a crew of one. It is no fun preaching to yourself. However, my son wants me to get another truck, and do the father and son thing. I am still thinking about that. But up until that time, Yes, I held safety meetings once a month. They sure got tired of me beating them into the ground with safety issues. But not a one of them had anything happen to them more serious than a paper cut. No accidents at all in 7 years, and only two insurance claims. And one of those insurance claims was my fault. Gilbert
  21. Topic originally created by A1TOWING in September of 2002: How much time should you allow to train a new driver?? Most of our drivers have had some experience and or knowledge of cars so it's just been a matter of seeing how they drive, hook and safety habits, and teaching our "system" you know...the usual. We just took in a "trainee" who has had driving experience, but not towing. I explain different things as we are driving and both show and let him do when we are hooking. His first day just happened he got a glimpse of medium, wheel lift, bang bar at an accident scene and flat bed towing. I figured it was a good training day as he got to experience a lot of different methods and kind of grasp the basic principles. Well, day 2 it seems like I had to start over from the beginning. I realize it's first hand to us and kinda Greek to him. Am I expecting too much?? When do you decide 'he just don't get it"?? We can't really devote a month of training so are we wasting our time ? Any input is appreciated....Thanks unknown member said: Yeah Buddy, You are expecting way too much. First of all anybody is gonna be a little nervous knowing that they are being scrutinized every move they make. I always was. Second, everybody needs a break in period,even people with experience have problems with learning new invoices and developing some kind of method or groove. He don't know jack and it sounds like you expected him to absorb and retain everything you showed him on the first day. One training method is to do things and explain to him what you are doing,next have him tell you what to do,and correct him when he's wrong,next have him do the work and explain to you while he's doing the task, might sound like a lot of bull to you but while you use this method you are helping him get the basics. Don't be so impatient,you guys hired him. Training takes time. Just make sure you get it across to him about SAFETY FIRST,money comes later. EricGodard CA said; Hey jim, It seemed like the perfect training day for you but for him it was probably a nightmare. To many methods to soon.I do most all training at your shop and I can tell ya that it takes a long time to train a good operator. We do mostly heavy work but the basics are all the same. All drivers are different for sure but no one will get it all in a day. I can spend a week just talking about the saftey aspects of towing.As for recovery in the heavy at least, Forget it I will be old and grey {well old i have no hair} and still hope to learn something new every day myself. proper training = saftey = everyone goes home at the end of the day !!! and eat twinkies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Eric Godard WM020116 6/7A A1TOWING said: Well, it looks like this driver is history allready. He was supposed to show at 8 am and didn't. No call, no nuttin. Thanks for the input though, you folks are right, I was kinda overwhelming him and expecting to much. I also got annoyed at the only questions he would ask are about pay, hours, commissions and days off. Nothing about the actual work involved. My gut instinct was he was not to bright or not into this towing thing. If my gut felt someone was really trying or interested, I think the patience would follow. We all learn something new everyday, either on purpose or by surprise. (don't wanna use that other word) Thanks again all......... unknown member said: first want here something funny .. fired one of my best drivers , made me most money worked longest hours .never cried . but was caught stealing ....... in walks this guy next day looking for job . fills out app. ran his lic . gave him road test . semi . wrecker . road test rollback same took this guy out in yard got . this test track . got me some inpound cars / worth 10.00 three on top of each other tied up . now tell this guy there is wreckers . there is roll backs there is a helper show me what you got .. now i allready know he has put on app . 14 years exp in towing same job in this tiny town 50 miles away . and something about this guy don't right . well he cuts loose man this guy is good i sit back on my golf cart watching him he"s good i mean real good so he unloads them and i ask him when can you start .he says tomorrow . i say well i can't have you put on insurance that fast take few days chech things out .. he says he also does mech work also . well i got this big ole caddy and this lincoln we were going to get ready for demo derby come in tomorrow you can start on that . he says ok this guy comes in 8am ready to work . knocks out caddy 2 hours ;; lincoln 2 hours . washes 4 trucks goes to lunch 30 minutes comes back cleans shop . goes with me does three fhp rotations time go home my wife and son are shoked me to we laugh and say thought you said i made mistate firing the other driver next morning guy comes to work hauls 5 cars . girl friend calls he's 45 years old she sounds young .. says for him call home his brother died ... he comes in yard crying caring on i give him 50.00 gas money he goes home . layter that day stop by his house to see what i can do . his brother ain't died this little 17 year old girl comes out i ask were he is , she says gone get her some ice cream . i ask who are you she says his girl friend, i call my son on radio to tell him whats going on .. he says better get to shop daddy you ain't gonna believe this the new driver has got these two guys wifes in rollback and they are looking for him and his girl friend is looking for her ice cream.. \ i go pulling up in yard and there is the two big ole boys with some big ole sticks hunting this driver .. he calls and says for us to come get the truck he is just to nervous to drive . he is looking for a job and has exp i will trade you A1TOWING said: Oh yeah Roy, It's amazing whats out there. Makes ya wonder how they get by in the world???? Just can't seem to find a few "normal" people to drive the trucks. We've had em that don't answer beepers, need to leave cause thier girlfreind needs em for some stupid thing, the worst is when we find they've been using the trucks for personal use. Just yesturday AM one asked if he could use the truck to go around the corner for breakfast. His ride to work had to go elsewhere he says. So I tell em thats just what the boss means, don't use the trucks for running around. We tell him Just go to the deli around the corner!!! A few minutes go by and we need him for a tow. Can't get him on the radio, beep him, no answer. So I drive around the block. he's not there. 25 minutes later he's on the radio...WHERE WERE YOU???? His answer. the bagel place didn't have the kind he likes so he went to another in a different town. What the ______ did we just say?????? His ride to work was 2 young chicks using his car and they all pulled away in the same direction. I'm tellin ya that SOB took the chicks to breakfast!!!!! Of course he denied it. What do you do?? Fire him and then what do you get. The adds go in the paper and all these misfits show up. Oh well, the search continues..... unknown member said: I know this probably ain't ann landers page . but here lately the better you are to them the worse they are to you . there is no being mr nice guy . man i hire em loan em money buy them washing machines . beds , cars . trucks . motorcycles . sure some of pay you back . now we got guys been here years. fired four this week been here long time rather do it our self than put up with a thieft, new hidden cameras comething else . wish i"Dhad it when dog got stolen but know who did it . he just made me so much was hard to admit it but fired him also was hard working with four drivers short this week . look at money we saved . and did not lose a customer . worst part about towing .. is having good help .. good help is hard to find . but were does these nuts come from are they putting my add in weirdo section or are they sniffin my racin fuel after they come to work for me ... guess i"m gonna call da Moose and see if he will let me and misses fill our surburban full of twinkies .load the boat and fishing poles before it gets to cold go north and catch some fish .. seen on map he lives close to some lakes . god knows we need a vacation maybee we could put some pontoons on sterling and take it out on lake michigan and check out the tranny -------------- jrm698 said: some of these tow drivers are something else.Jim WM 6/7B Be Safe Out There Wes Wilburn said: I believe people have different learning styles. One person may be able to retain information after being exposed to it one time. Others may need to be exposed to the same information several times before they retain it. And still others may need to be exposed to the same information many times, with no other information being given to them or they will confuse the two. This learning time could increase if the person feels nervous or pressure to perform. The persons learning style has nothing to do with their ability to perform the task you are learning. unknown member said: Heck, I ain't even in towing any more and I continue to learn more about it almost each and every day. Let's just say I consider it as broadening my knowledge horizons. unknown member said: If you are devoted to your carrer the learning proccess never ends. All our drivers go through two weeks in house training, this should be enough to put them on the road by themselves and they should be able to handle most common situations. We also send them to one of the three day workshops, ussually through AAA and continue with training on a regular basis. Iv had a few drivers that just barely cut it, and you know they wont be long with us but so far iv only had one person who after two weeks still couldnt run a tow truck. You just have to watch how thier doing and evaluate them as you go along. I noticed a couple years ago when i was training a new guy, he seemed to be doing very well, then we went out to tow a car for a couple cute girls and he seemed to take forever to do the hookup and i had to remind him of some basic things. Our next call was for a group of guys, my new driver was Mexican-American and so was this group, they started shooting the breeze in spanish and i noticed he was very relaxed and did a great job. I commented on this and he told me the young ladies did make him nervous, so take into account that a trainee is being scrutinized by not only the customer, but by you also and depending on the customer this can make some people very nervous. When i train, once i feel they have the hang of it i try to stay in the truck and let them handle it themselves. (i watch in the mirror and try not to let them see me watching) Steve TowMonster1962 said: I am still a greenhorn in the towing industry , Been driving for my boss for 12 years yesterday . He is great , he treats me like a person & I treat him & his wife with the respect they deserve . I am one of the training operators when the other 2 instructors are done with him/her I get him/her. We train 1 ton drivers for approximatly 1 week . If the driver has the knoledge he gets into his own wrecker. The owner of our company gets inducted to the "Friends Of Towing" hall of fame next week . Wish I could go but he needs us drivers to watch the shop . Way To Go "DAVID ROSS" Ross Services London Ontario Canada . It Is a great pleasure to work for him . He took me under his wing & I will never leave him or his wife . Like I said he is one of the best in the industry . Visit our page at www.rossservices.com . & keep the sunny side up . unknown member said: when i get to train a new driver, i start out with a ride along one day for the new driver just to see what we do if he or she thinks that towing is what they want to do, then we start in the yard all day just moving our old junk around you know dolly this dolly that and that is the way i start them out we work 3 days in the yard.. give them time to get comfy with the truck before we go out and start the real training! works for me bob unknown member said: I learn something new all the time I am out and I have been doing this line of work for about 15yrs now and enjoy learning and I dont know eveything either and I am also willing to learn and be taught unknown member said: we put our guys through two weeks of training to start and if they dont get the feel for it we put em with someone else to try for 2 or 3 more days. different people learn different and different people teach different. Ive had a trainee learn from me for two weeks and didn't click on the routine so i put him with another and he had em done in two days. I guess something clicked. unknown member said: i think being a driver myself if he is not out of the truck with in 3 days doing it all correct I think you should move on....He may just not be cut out for it....Or will cost you in the end! Just Me... TowKing Divor said: what we do is we send the trainie out with 4or 5 different drivers to learn the different technics for about 3 weeks then we set him or her loose in a truck and if a difficult job comes up we send a trainer along with the new driver to walk him or her through it. it has worked great ivor lstyba said: Divor, do you pay your trainee by the hour for the 3 weeks? Sounds to me like it is not a cost effective way of traing. It think 8 hrs in the yard for hook ups and back up driving practise and the driver should be ready to do calls. The recoveries or hard jobs I agree with you walk the employee thru at the time of the call. Just my opinion. 8hrs is negotiable to me, not everyone can learn or retain at the same rate. maybe 2 days 4 hr a day....Cya In the Ditch Larry Styba Cya In the Ditch Larry Styba WM# 011088 6/7 AC TowZone said: It's been a few years, but I would never let anyone out on their own until they had completed a minimum of 3 full days training. There is much more to the job then just towing. I've never seen any long term (more then a few weeks) success in just 8 hours. Even with the experienced operator it takes more then 8 hours to break the old habits. The way it was with me, if you didn't get it by the third day your walking. Training costs money, damage costs even more. It would be great if the industry afforded the opportunity to send each driver through a regional training program of your choice. However the market just does not support it, since not everyone will participate until forced too. That's the sad part, just what we need more government. lstyba said: I am just saying I spent 8 hrs with one guy doing hookups and all on carrier and wheel lift, dollies etc. . So i think if there was a concentrated way of training guys for the basics in a shorter time, should cut down on damage claims and turn around time for the empoloyer the better.Cya In the Ditch Larry Styba Cya In the Ditch Larry Styba WM# 011088 6/7 AC Divor said: when someone says they want to drive tow truck they ride along on there own time the company does not pay for his time. so we can make sure they are ready to do the job safely unknown member said: Experienced driver - 2 or 3 days if he is real good. Experienced with little training and a strong will to learn, spent almost three weeks with. On average Around 3 weeks and then assist as needed on difficult calls. One driver went 8 years and never seen a roll-over!!!!!! Most of us guys in the shop couldn't believe it either. How much time depends on how much your trying to teach. Jump starts, lockouts, tire changes (don't laugh) they can be tricky to a novice, towing, sling towing, flatbed towing, winching..... There are a lot of things that you learn over the years that you assume every one should just know. Ever been to an accident with another company, told the other driver where the t hook slots were, and after he hooked the rear control arm of a new car to winch it back on the road, then politely tell him not to hook there and his remark - It'll be OK. Yeah looked funny with the wheel have sideways. Money spent wisely is better than money spent fixing amateur mistakes. Mike Yorktow said: I'd be happy to find someone who could actually think on their own. If it's something out of the ordinary you might as well do it yourself rather than letting the ole boy embarrass themselves. Can't figure that out. Maybe asking for too much but after 5 years you'd think they could figure out small problems. NOT !!!! Fred unknown member said: If the applicant is new to towing, it usualy takes about 3 weeks. If he had towed before, it is a full week, just to show him the company way, and to catch up on the paper work. All tranees are paid hourly for 10 hours a day for the duratin of traning. It costs money, but it saves a lot of damage claims. >>> I might be wrong, but I doubt it. <<<
  22. Bigtows said: The other day we were called to tow a 1998 Pierce Dash pumper, We usually put these on our Landoll (But of course it was out of service) We went with our 9055 Century to get it and thought no big deal Just pull the shaft. WRONG ANSWER all the drive shaft bolts were welded in, every one of them. WE towed it 1/4 mile off the exit ramp to an International dealer to get it fixed there. They wouldn't even touch it. after looking at the truck a little closer it was only a small hose and We fixed the truck in the parking lot just by replacing the hose. I guess my question is has anyone else seen this on any other firetrucks? We have towed quite a few of them and have never seen this before. Underlifter said: I'd say it was done by some know it all mechanic who doesn't know what Loc-tite is.I've never seen bolts welded in.Whoever did it should have his tools taken away. michael212 said: Why not just pull an axle??? Along time ago a Fire Engine Mechanic mentioned the Pump transfer case deal. I told him to get it in writting from the manufacturer stating it wouldn't hurt the pump, transfer or transmission and they said they (the manufacturer) would not do that. So to make a long one short. The Chief said either pull the driveline or pull an axle. Or put on a trailer. And for the question? No I haven't come across any welded bolts on a u-joint. Underlifter said: We all charge by the hour so why wouldn't we take the time to pull something?I've never had a driveshaft in a fire truck that didn't come right out-even the pressed in type. Dave Jim Hays said: I've towed a lot of FDNY's trucks from from Fleet Services to Detroit Diesel. They would always set it to pump for me. The only time I pulled something was on trucks without driveline pumps(tillers, arielscopes, etc).Jim Hays-WM#98752 Moran Automotive & Towing 30 Ton Sliding Rotator "Death is good to avoid" Bigtows said: I was told by the Chief that nothing was ever done to the driveline on this truck, It must have been done by the factory. We now have a wizzer, It will'not happen again. TNTOW said: A word of caution on towing with it in "Pump". Make sure the pump is driven by the transmisson shaft. Some trucks are equipped with pumps that will allow them to "pump and roll". These pumps do not disconnect the rear shaft but instead use a regular PTO opening and shaft that is usually hidden where you can hardly see it due to the plumbing and pump. Generally any pump rated at 1250 GPM or larger will be transmission driven. 750 to 1000 GPM pumps can be either but usually are PTO driven and use air shift . Pumps under 750 are 90% of the time PTO driven and use cable or electric shifts. kentuckytowmnan said: Same here on fire & vac trucks, put in pump, spin the shaft & tow it.Junior Reinhardt Jim Hays said: I always check by sending the underreach in & out with the remote while I watched the shaft Jim Hays-WM#98752 Moran Automotive & Towing 30 Ton Sliding Rotator "Death is good to avoid"
  23. hoover said: Tom had to tow this 05 Pierce for the City of Cocoa last month. Having not seen it myself, I would have to say he did the right thing here. Has anybody done one of these. Let's have your input and suggestions. Thanks Tommy for the pictures. underlifter said: Thats the only way to do them.If ya fork the suspension an cause any marks you'll void the warranty.This is why Jerr-dan now has the 25,000Lb.tire grids.Imagine the big platform ladder trucks with this suspension that have 20,000 on the front end.Lots of fun!LOL Dave sweiljr said: Nice job. I have towed a few of these for the Detroit dealer. On the first one it thew me for a loop I had DB81 call Pierce to see what they had to say about towing procedures. There answer was to wheel lift or trailer. The wishbones are hollow and was told would damage if towed on forks. The suspicion is called tac4. A lot of new fire trucks are going to this type of suspicion it makes for better steering and breaking. I did one place to fork the frame but it was to close to the radiator any movement I would have bought a new one. What else are they going to do to make our jobs more fun? While we had the engineer on the phone DB81 asked to see if Pierce would make a hook up point right behind the bumper for towing and he said they were working on something we can only wait to see. Hopefully this will help.Steven Weil jr DANNY Fernandez said: hay simmon yes we tow this for the city all the time we tow from rear dump water and wheel lift they are lighter from rear. bts3 said: I was told that if you try to fork those on the frame you risk buckleing the cab and frame. Dave (aka Underlifter) would know more about that ( no he didn't do it, lol). He is right down the street from the dealer. He told me, tire lift or trailer only. Anyway, nice job Simon. Very professional Bighook18 said: I did this one last year.. It was a 2005..but It doesnt look like it was a Pierce. I think the back ends are very similiar. They are actually lighter from the rear I think once empty (if possible). Sorry, no hook up pics, but there is a huge crossmember I couldve forked, picked the axle w/ forks or I may have even u-bolted the bugger.. Sorry I cant remember. Todd Pell TNTow said: Wheel-lift or trailer them is the recomendation of most of the chassis manufacturers (Spartan, HME, Pierce, E-One). As far as towing them from the rear it depends on how the body is mounted. Most use an isolated independent mounting system using rubber and springs so the body can flex independent of the frame. The pump housings are also mounted independent of the body by most of the larger mfgs. The independent front suspensions are becoming standard on most trucks over the next couple of years as well as independent rears being considered by some. Spartan is coming out with a 25,000 independent air ride front in addtion to the ones offered now. If anyone has any questions we are a Spartan and HME service center and dealer for Toyne Fire Apparatus. nullstowing said: Our local fire company just got a new rescue it is a Pierce. At the front of the frame itself there are two tow hooks that are designed to hook to for towing. I do not see them on the truck pictured above. According to Pierce all of the units with the Tak 4 (independent front suspension) are supposed to have them. sweiljr said: Pierce must have been telling the truth when we talked to them about a 18 month ago about the front tow hook points. Maybe other mfg will do the same and even some truck mfg will make it easier on us. You know trucks don't break down and need to be towed so no need to make it easy to do so lol.Steven Weil jr wstowing11 said: I towed a Pierce with this suspension when they first came out a few years back. Went over a 100 miles to bring it back. Was not made aware that it was special or out of the ordinary til I got there. Never even seen the suspension before. Definetely couldn't frame tow, or even get close to anything on the rails, too many hydraulic lines and yes the front is a bolt on. Used my Jerr-Dan 60 ton to fork the suspension bracketry at the flat 1/2 " plates , between where the a arms mount up. I didn't think anything different about the suspension til I saw it on tow411. If I would have known it was such a monster I would have probably shot a pic . I will say it towed fine from where I hooked it , used four chains, two binders to secure it. When I would get @ 25 miles under me I would pull over and check. Didn't even scratch the plates, I think I chained it in place too well. WM 99887 said: Something better is coming soon, we just finished testing new hook up points with Pierce. The had strain gauges and the whole deal. Have to wait until its cleared for release. I have the official tak-4 towing procedures, email me at tower@new.rr.com and I will forward what I was sent last year if anyone wants it. About the pick point behind or in front of the radiator, someone else was testing, I dont think they paid for it yet? Instead of using fork reducers he used a 6' piece of 2by2 square tube, didnt work.Noltes, Oshkosh, WI 50 tons of fun.
  24. 25yrs said in 2008: Our town just purchased 2 new large peirce engines and 1 ladder trk. I know they recommend heavy wheel lift only however we dont have the 25000lb wheel-lift and dont want that large of purchase just for those trucks. We have a 30ton Dewalt, 25ton jerr-dan, a v-70 with the Euro-reach and a 35 ton landoll. Anybody tow these with anything other than the wheel-lift and if so where, I would appreciate any feed back you may have. Silverhawk said: Most of the fire companies in our area want them carried. We sub it out to a company with several double drop RGN's that are extendable. The one fire company that allows them towed we use one of our 9055's with the tire lift. Strapped and chained. Woody39 said: as far as the engines go, you should go to the fd and measure the height of the units they should fit onto your landoll . as for the ladder truck you will also have to go and look at the unit to see where you can hook up. does it have a beam axle? front suction/discharge pipes underneath? can you hook to the frame if the axle is set back far? it looks like your v-70 will be the truck of choice for the ladder truck. I have the wheel lift and am not a big fan of it. I only need it for 1 fire truck in our area all others I can fork either the frame or the axle. all of our depts dont care where we hook as long as we dont scratch the paint. an old pair of gloves does the trick when hooking the frame Towing4u said: If they are all pierce units your fire dept. can request the towing procedures from them. They cover the dash, quantom and another. The tak 4 suspensions are nto to bad however it is important to follow their guidelines. On the dash pumper there is a hose that needs to be disconnected on the drivers side. We have 4 tak 4 trucks here and we have towed them all, the ladder truck is not difficult just awkward. Need to find out what pierce units they are and see if they have floats on the front...if they do and have tak 4 suspension, bus lift if out. We tow them by the frames. Chuck with Noltes said: Here is the reply from the engineers after doing strain gauge testing/towing without using the wheel lift: :"Attached is a pic of the components used for towing our truck. Please let > me know if you know where we can send customers to get these components > and > part number if you have them." We used the width extensions and steer tek forks, they were happy with the pick points, it was the best place that they found for strength and ease of towing. We had our 2530 nomore and wasnt extended all that far. They were coming out with a add on kit to bolt to the area, but I think they are just using the steer tek forks now. Silverhawk said: The Pierce unit that Gilbert Fire operates weighs in at 76,000 without the water on it. This is a 3 axle chassis, with 10 tires. Floaters on all wheels. Too heavy and too tall for Landoll type slide axles. Front axle is over 25,000. RGN is the way to go. Front tires are rated at 9,990 max load each. I think (know) they are headed for a blowout in this hot summer heat. EastTexTower670 said: Someone might check with Trail-Eze they have a 3 axle slider that is a 50 ton unit. We have 2 3 axle sliders and havent had any problem with weight issues. Towstany said: Our City also has them. I have forked them the simular way Chuck shows. The ladder is to tall for a landol. 25yrs said: 16,000 on V-70 wheel lift though the engines we have here have a steel plate between the rails no safe place to hook the frame!!!!!!!! unknown member said: Trail-Eze offers a 3 axle, 40 ton Hydraulic Detachable Gooseneck Trailer (TE80DGBUS) made to haul buses, fire trucks, equipment, etc. I know that there is a towing company in the northeast that has hauled the big 76,000# fire truck on the TE80DGBUS.
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