Stubborn66

we are adding a 4% fuel surcharge to our billing for retail.

I was able to get two clubs to raise the rate a bit in January, the 2 others won't budge so we are taking a close look at the calls and only running those that will be profitable. 

Has anyone used both of these companies and have a preference?  We are finally looking at going with a digital program that will work for all the club work as well as our cash customers.  We are a small company, 4 trucks and three drivers

thanks for the input

13 hours ago, mikeshome said:

I would say you could do a fair bit of recovery with the right driver in it

If you carry enough equipment on it with the right driver, you would be surprised at what you can do with a carrier.  As for "how hard can you pull", that depends on the situations.

Looks like they ran square into the back of the truck, hopefully no injuries.   I80 is the scariest road we work, too many close calls out there

I like that you can put it under the wheel and "assemble" it.  The Condor, you have to run it up into the ramp to secure it, if it has a flat front tire, that can be a challenge.  But, I have never felt more secure loading a bike than with the Condor. 

That is one hell of an expensive ice skating rink he was trying to make. 

Lucky to be safe

On 2/19/2022 at 4:48 PM, TowZone said:

For current members we ask the question. "Do you have a Goal for 2022?" Make your goal one that is attainable, setting goal to high as I have with new sponsors can be discouraging. Smaller more attainable goals are more rewarding when they are reached.

Our goal for this year is to increase our margins on the business as a whole, while maintaining or increasing our total annual sales.  Last year we added tools to help us track the business better, this year we will use those tools to accomplish our goal.

For Tow Force, I do not have a Facebook account, but I lurk on my wife's account on a "tow talk" group when I am not shopping of marketplace.  I see many unprofessional posts in that group, but I would assume there are many people like me who watch it from time to time who would much rather a more professional setting such as here.  Why not post a message on that group's page to see if it would generate any interest.  Just a thought 

We take a little different approach.  My rates for fuel delivery are profitable, hell I would run fuel around all day.  But, if we go out for a fuel delivery, we take a service truck, generally an S10.  Once we put the fuel in, we tell the customer to cycle the key three times to activate the pump and get the fuel up, then start it.  If it does not start due to a dead battery, then we add a fee for the jump start.  If it does not start at that point, the customers diagnosis of no fuel is incorrect. There is no further diagnosis on our part, it needs to be towed.  At that point, since I do not have a tow truck with me, the customer has to call in for an additional service, sometimes we get it sometimes we don't.

I have been asked by both the clubs and the customers why I did not bring a tow truck.  I politely tell them that I will not run a tow truck that only gets 9mpg for a fuel delivery and someone other than I made the diagnosis that the car was out of fuel.  I "read" the customer, if they are reasonable, we tell them we can help them back at the shop, if they are not reasonable, we simply tell them our shop is booked and we can't get it in for a few days.  Either way it works out, we have been paid for our time and the service we had been called for.  I also have a younger guy working for me that I can send on these calls when I am backed up in the shop, I don't send him out with rollbacks yet.

We do the same thing when a club calls for a jump start / possible tow.  We tell them it is one or the other, we cannot send out a rollback @ 9mpg to jump start a car.  If the customer is not certain it is just a dead battery it should be towed rather than waste time.  Again, sometimes we get them, sometimes we don't.

I cant leave them sit either

It still amazes me how many calls we get for "fuel delivery".  I had one Saturday night at 11pm, for a lady on her way to work, then two back-to-back Sunday morning starting at 6am.  They were all covered for the gas.  The last one I am pretty sure I have taken gas to before in a different town, and I think she may be living in her car.

Hi,

Welcome to the group.  There is a wealth of information here.  If you take the time to read through the old posts, you will gain a lot of information.  You will see a lot of negative experiences posted, but I believe much of it is dependent on the area and how much competition there is for club work in that area.  Do your homework and find out how much competition you have in your area.   

As for your question.  If the clubs are not getting back to you, they are likely saturated in your area.  Sometimes you need to reach out multiple times to get a response, even if is to say they are not looking for providers in your area.

My other suggestion would be If you do get them to the table, don't forget to negotiate rates that will keep you profitable.  You need to know what it costs you to operate, that is not really as easy as it sounds.  I would not expect any loyalty from the clubs, they are simply looking to get service to their customers at the cheapest possible rate.

Good Luck

I just came across this post on another site, has anyone else had this type of issue?

The purpose of my post is to create awareness over 1 cell phone and 1 man with 4 apps that track my location/alert me of jobs. I had to separate them to different phones to play nice with each other.

I have an older Jerr Dan industrial bed, it has an 8000 pound winch but the drum is a narrow one and the wraps build up fast.  It calls for a 50 foot rope, I tried to put 100 on it but I could not keep it wrapping straight.  I have 75 on it now and can keep it wrapping straight.  I have D rings too so I can double the line like Ed mentioned.  I like the extra rope but there is a downside.

10 hours ago, DennisHONK said:

First & foremost, photo requirements:
Many of our services now fall into what we call "logistics tows", and the majority of those services are unattended tows on both ends; no customer at pickup and no one to log in the vehicle at drop-off. In order to maintain accuracy and efficiency, we ask that photos be uploaded from the drop location so that we not only have the photo on file, but also the geolocation data. This helps us locate supposedly "lost" vehicles for clients and customers while reducing the back and forth phone calls between customer, client, our contact center, and your office and team. It may seem like "more work" up front to upload the photos to the portal, but I can guarantee anyone who has ever dealt with a motor club looking for a customer's car at a dealership or other repair shop days after it's been delivered would rather uploaded 2-3 photos compared with spending precious time on the phone going back and forth dozens of times.

Dennis,

I have actually run into a lost vehicle at a dealership when I had dropped the wrecked car directly across from the dealer's body shop overhead doors.  They claimed it was not there when the adjuster arrived.  When they called, I told them to look out their overhead doors, the reply was "oh".  We can't fix lazy with any amount of technology.

I am not opposed to the pictures; we use them as protection for our company anyway. Nor am I opposed to technology, which seems to be what others have taken from my original post.  We actually do our fair share of electrical work in the shop, many times on vehicles that have been elsewhere first.  We are also one of the few shops in our area that can program BCM's.  We are a small shop with two full time and a part time mechanic.

But, as you will see in my previous post, I would prefer the uploading to be done in our office, not me or my guys on the road.  We can say it only takes a couple of minutes all we want, but the reality is it would take ~15minutes to log onto your site, go through the steps to get the pictures uploaded.  My phone tends to lock up if I try to send more than one or two pictures at a time. Then, as I mentioned in my previous post, what if a picture wont upload or the clarity is not good enough, especially the vin#.  Do I spend more time onsite trying to rectify the problem?  Do I try to get a person on the phone to help?  This all starts to add up very quickly with guys I am paying a good salary to for their knowledge of cars, not their ability to learn every auto clubs' procedures.

The timestamp and GPS location embedded on the photo does not change based on where it is uploaded from, or do you know something I don't?

Just as an FYI, I posted the original post to see if anyone else on here had run into this yet.  I was not 100% sure I understood the dispatcher correctly.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond in these forums, but I would rather have a phone discussion with you about this issue and the issue of enroute miles that we have corresponded about in another post on this forum.  In my past experience, trying to get a person on the phone from HONK was too time consuming.

Thanks

Tracy

I like the challenge in jobs like these.  Don't be afraid to charge what it is worth.

Hi All,

I took a much-needed break for a few days.  I have read through all of the posts, and it appears that HONK has changed the requirement regarding taking pictures and submitting them at the time of drop off.  That was the question I had posed in the original post.

I also made a call to a friend of mine who is much more adept to the technology, and he tells me that the time stamp and geographic location is on a digital photo, and it will remain on that photo regardless of where it is uploaded from and when.  When it is uploaded a second record will be created with the IP Address and computer/ phone that sent it.

towman27 gave a good description of Honk and is similar to what we had seen with Honk and its app.  Dennis seems to be saying the app has changed, but I still see no need to be messing with pictures on the road when the timestamp will follow the picture. 

Currently, it is very simple for us, we give my wife our cell phones when we get back in, she uploads the pictures, files them in our system for future reference, and she could easily submit them when she submits for payment. 

I don't want to mess around with pictures any more than I have to, and I don't want to pay my guys to do so either.  I would rather pay my guys for working on something and they don't want to mess with the pictures either.  Also, when we run into damages, we take a lot of pictures and call in to the club immediately to have the dispatcher update the dispatch.  Guess who we can never got back on the phone???     

Regarding the comment from Mr. Resch to towman27:

Personally, I appreciate and respect your approach versus ignorant comments made by the industry’s tow police. 

Mr. Resch, if your comment was directed at me, let me assure you I was in no way disrespectful to the lady on the phone when I spoke to her, I asked questions, got the answers and simply declined to do the job.  The post I made here was a brief description of the conversation and a Question for the group.  As for tow police, I do not tell anyone how to run their business.  

Not to be flippant, sometimes, to get along you go along. With all of the competition around, I'd do what I could to keep those dollars coming in. Besides, what's one more task if you're company's getting paid. Why not keep that money in your account coming in?

My father built this building and the business back in the late 60's our family name is on the doors of our trucks.  We have faced competition for years; we have never once found ourselves in a position where we needed to "get along to go along".  We have survived this long by doing quality work at reasonable prices and being fair with our customers.  About 60-70 percent of our business revenue comes from our repair shop.  We face change in that on a daily basis, especially from our business accounts, and we bend over backwards to serve them.  I have never had a customer come to me and tell me that he wanted something as a requirement that was not discussed up front.  I have also never had a customer tell me that they wanted something that did not make sense to both of us. 

It's OK to quit Honk, but keep in-mind, towers can balk at change and not take pictures for Honk or any others, but a hard fact is, there's always some other company that WILL jump through their hoops.  At the end of the day, is it too difficult a process?

You are correct, there will always be another new towing company, just starting out, that will undercut the rates to gain revenue. 

Personally, I don't want to race those companies to the bottom.  I also put an experienced mechanic out in the trucks, we may be a bit more expensive, but my guys are not just who I could get to fill the seat.

Also, in the same vein, there will always be new motor clubs out there slashing the rates to compete against other motor clubs.  How do they do that???????  How many clubs over the years have changed names, gotten bought out or simply gone out of business?  AAA is traditionally one of the lowest paying clubs out there, but yet they survive, HOW?

You ask, is it a too difficult a process?  Well, the answer is no, not really, but what are you going to do when you miss one of the photos or a photo is not clear enough, and they deny payment???  How much time will be spent on the phone, and/or email trying to get paid???  Who pays for that time??

Brian, I sometimes go haul a few for a friend of mine out of the local auctions when he can't get everything home.  When I do, I watch the yards when the guys start loading the car carriers. It is amazing what I see.  It also why my friend pays me more to go get them than to have them delivered. 

Why do we as an industry accept that unprofessionalism?  We accept it largely because these are not easy jobs, they do not pay well because of bad contracts, and many companies use the first warm body they can find.  It is also a driving force behind the clubs, and others, to place more and more requirements on us.

Just saw this original post.

We had signed up, given our rates, put the app on my phone.  I only ran a few calls, they were not paying me by my rates.  Removed that annoying app from my phone, now we only take calls where there is a person on the other end of the line.  That comes after you don't respond to the robo calls.

They tell you what they want to pay, I just tell them we have a truck available but cannot do the work for that amount, give them my rate.  Then, they have to get it approved, sometimes they call back, sometimes they dont. 

I also have them email me the dispatch information; I do not give them my cell phone numbers anymore.  I only had the app on my phone originally, gave them my guy's cell phone number on one of the calls I sent him on, they contacted him while he was on that call multiple times, then, they sent him a text one time when he was not even working.  No more cell phone numbers for them.

Now, this week, they called me to run one for them.  They apparently have a new policy where they want the call documented with pictures, which is not a problem, actually, it takes away some of the blame game.  The problem, they want the pictures uploaded while you or on scene via cell phone to their app.  This is a covert attempt to get cell phone numbers.  Once they have your numbers, expect to be called, even if you don't have the app.  To add insult to injury, if you do have an issue with a dispatch, try getting a person on the phone.

I told the lady we would be happy to take pictures, four corners and the VIN#, for a fee, and submit them when we submitted for billing.  She was ok with the fee but told me we had to do it while we were on the job.  We passed.

12 minutes ago, EdsTowing said:

Charge them till it hurts...cause once you're contracted you'll live at their mercy...

LOL, Ed is right, once contracted getting a raise is tough

Welcome to the forum.

There is no "average" price we charge, it all depends on the competition in a given area. The more towers in your area the lower the prices the clubs will be willing to pay.  Supply and demand in its simplest form.

What you really need to know before you start negotiating with a club, or anyone for that matter, is what your operating costs are. 

To get to a true operating cost to run a truck or trucks, and your business, takes some real work, even if you are working out of your house.  If you don't know what those numbers are, you won't survive.  There are a lot of expenses involved in running a company that people miss when calculating operating costs.  

Then you need to figure out what your margins should be to get to a realistic profit that your area can support.  Then, break that down to retail, private company, club, etc. 

Once you have that, read through the posts on here, and elsewhere, to get an idea of what it is like to work for a club.  You will see a lot of negative comments about the clubs, but it really depends on your area and YOUR business model.  If you are going to be dependent on club work specifically, you have a tough row to hoe.  If you are in a competitive area, I would say it is very unlikely club pay will sustain your business.  If you have other customers to work for and club work will be fill in, then, your chances of survival increase.

Good Luck

Nice truck

1 hour ago, rreschran said:

G-uh Morning Mr. Stubborn ... Out here, there's policy of some law enforcement agencies where photos are required and stored on a dedicated computer. BUT, that's part of the original contract and NO extra dollars are offered by the agency. I've heard of that in other industries including my line of work. But, an agreement over the phone by an unknown person, offering no visual policy, or rule change, in-writing, or an added contract addendum ... something sounds fishy. Could it be that the club might be testing the waters? Club policies change all the time and sometimes towers have to roll with it. Before jumping to conclusions, I respectfully suggest a friendly call-back to your rep or area supervisor (if you have one) and request the requirement in writing.  If you get it in writing, $50 for a few extra minutes of work is easy money. Ultimately, if you're collecting an additional $50 bucks on top of regular charges, that's time well-spent. Not to be flippant, sometimes, to get along you go along. With all of the competition around, I'd do what I could to keep those dollars coming in. Besides, what's one more task if you're company's getting paid. Why not keep that money in your account coming in?           R

Good Morning,

My issue is not in taking the pictures or submitting them.  My issue is that they want it done on location and done via cell phone.  That means a couple of things.  First, the driver would need their app on his phone.  Secondly, it would take time to upload the pictures.  Even if it is me on the call, which on many occasions it is, I don't want our guys messing around on cell phones while in the trucks, that is a clerical function.  

We do take a lot of pictures on most calls, especially if there is any damage, those pictures are then loaded into our computer at the office where we keep them.  My wife, ( AKA boss) is the one who handles all of this, she has saved our azz on more than one occasion.  She is also the person who submits the bills to be paid, she could easily upload a picture of the completed job when she submits for payment.

Honk wants everyone's cell phone number, then they track the location of the driver's phone.  Our guys, there are three of us who run the trucks, would then get messages about jobs, whether or not they are in a tow vehicle.  We are primarily a repair shop.  We do not want that, any tow call must come through our office, that is where our record keeping starts.  I know we can just turn down a call, but that app is absolutely annoying when it goes off and it overrides anything you may be doing on that phone at the time. 

We are also supposed to be able to set our rates in that app, but when a job comes through, it spells out what they will pay if we accept the job.  That price has never been anywhere near the rates I had set with them.  Honk also issues out robo calls to let you know a job is available, but again, if you go to the app, the price does not reflect the rates I had submitted.  I have seen other posts where companies like their app, but it does not work for us.  We now only take a call from them if there is a person on the other end of the line.  Their dispatchers are very hard to understand, and I have actually heard chickens cackling in the background, yes chickens. 

I see absolutely no need for these pictures to be uploaded on location other than they want proof of completion.  They generally call us a few hours after they assign the job to ask us if it is complete.  The have sent me out on a job at 8pm and called back at 2am just to see if the job is complete.  If my wife uploads a picture when submitting for payment, that would give them the proof they are after, correct?

Further, on the occasions where there is prior damage, it is nearly impossible to get a live person on the phone to update a dispatch, there is also no way to do it on the app that I am aware of.  The only thing positive for us is that Honk is the fastest in paying their bills.

Technology is great, but we are getting to a point where we are being asked, required, to do things just because they can be done.  All of this adds up in time, and time costs money. 

Another thing we are running into is insurance companies asking us to photograph wrecks in our yard and submit them.  This saves them from sending out an adjuster.  We do that for them, we charge them for our time to do so.  Why would I do it for free for a motorclub?  It is one thing to take photos to protect my company but a totally different thing to be required to do so.

I am not one to cut my nose off to spite my face, but there comes a time where you just have to draw the line.  I will work for them again, but I will not submit to them having my cell phone numbers and wasting time on the road for something that should happen at the office.  The choice is actually theirs.

Respectfully

Tracy

Got a call from Honk today for a lock box tow.  I gave them a price, then the lady asks me if I am aware of their picture policy.  I say no, I am not.

She then tells me that to submit a bill and get paid, I have to take pictures of the car AND the vin #.  I tell her, no problem, but there will be a $50.00 picture capture fee.  She agrees to the fee,  then tells me that the pictures have to be taken on location AND uploaded to their portal.  We have never given HONK our cell phone numbers, they email us the job details and we submit online for the payment.  Now, she tells me that if we do not upload pictures on location, via cell phone we cannot get paid.

I told her we would not do that and are not interested in working for them.

Anyone else here of this??  

It would be nice to know how he is making out.

I got a call this morning at 2:30 am, Agero.  Breakdown that was being towed 7 miles, I gave them a price, the lady actually sounded like she couldn't believe the price, repeating back to me twice.  I explained that the location was 30 miles from the shop and that mileage had to be paid for and it is 2:30am.  Then she realized why the price was so high.

I went back to bed, figuring I would not get it.  I was shocked when she called back before I fell asleep and asked me if I could still do it. 

Got to the customer, got him loaded.  While taking him to the dealer I asked how long he had been waiting, he told me since before midnight.  It was probably 3:30 when I got to him so he had been waiting close to 4 hours I would imagine.  Fishing for more information, I asked if he had any copay with his roadside, he said he didnt.  I also asked who his insurance carrier was and he told me that he actually used his warranty coverage to arrange the tow. It was a newer Subaru. 

His biggest complaint was the waiting time naturally and he said he could not understand the person who helped him on the phone 

46 minutes ago, CNGTOWING said:

Stubborn66 I believe if you owned your own equipment/tow company and hauling for CoPart it would put you at a much better advantage. Any person who works for a tow company other than their own is at the financial dependency of that said company. 

Good Morning, Not sure what your point is. 

Whether I own the company or I am a driver paid on commission I want the wheels turning to get to the next job, unless I can bill for the time waiting.  

51 minutes ago, CNGTOWING said:

Any person who works for a tow company other than their own is at the financial dependency of that said company.

That is true of anyone working for someone else in ANY industry.

Very nice lady and family.  I had the pleasure to meet them when they sponsored the Wreckmasters classes I took.  Great operation and truly professional.  Congratulations to them

Just read through these posts and I did not see anyone mention time at Copart.  I took one vehicle to Copart on an insurance request.  I spent over an hour at Copart waiting for them to get their paperwork in order and tell me where to drop it.  I will not go back to Copart for any reason.

Recently I had a customer call and ask me to go pick up a car at Copart that he had bought through their online auction.  I did not take that call either, I can only imagine how long that would have taken. 

We are also looking to hire a guy here and I have had a couple guys apply who had worked for, or are working for, companies how haul for Copart.  All three of them were paid on a commission and did not make the money promised when they took the job.