Tow411

Topic Originally Created by thtdon on Tow411 in June of 2013:

I got a call last night to tow a car from I-495 in Andover, MA to Ayer, MA, a distance of 24 miles.  The guy had hit a deer on the highway.  The left front of his car was smashed, and the radiator lost the coolant.  He is a Liberty Mutual customer.  He called Liberty Mutual, and Agero dispatched me to tow his car.  He only had $50 worth of coverage.  So he knew in advance that there would be over-mileage.  Fifty dollars will get you a local motor club tow, and that's about it.

As we were driving along, I told him that I had lost my credit card swiping device, which I did, and I would not be able to process a credit card for him.  But I would be glad to take him to an ATM if he needed me to.  It turned out that it didn't matter if I had no swiping device, or if I had a dozen of them.  He said that his debit card was overdrawn by $119.  And he had no cash.  I didn't think that it was possible to overdraw a debit card, as the money is coming out of your checking account.  He wanted to call his mother in New York, get her credit card numbers over the phone, and get me to process it for him.  I refused to do that, as I am not set up for phone transactions.  And as you all know, you can do it, if you want to take the chance.  But if the customer contests the transaction later, you automatically lose, with no recourse, because you didn't have the card in hand and swiped it.

When we got to the destination, a closed auto body shop in Ayer, at 11:30 PM, he more or less asked me "what are you going to do, take my car?"  He called my bluff.  So I ended up doing what I haven't done in years and years, I left him at the destination, I towed the car back to my shop, and I impounded it.

I feel bad for the guy to a point.  But he knew what he was doing.  He knew up front that there would be over-mileage.  He knew what the rate would be.  And he knew that he had no money.  There were no surprises.  But he gave it a shot, and he lost. 

It is no different than if I went into the Olive Garden, sat down, stuffed myself with a nice meal, and then told the waiter that I only had 2 bucks.  The restaurant would have had me arrested. 

The customer was calling different people, to try and get someone to come to the auto body shop and bail him out.  But it was around 11:30 PM, and I suppose that most of the people that he called were asleep.  The one guy that he did talk to was in Newburyport, MA, somewhere between 50 and 60 miles away.  The customer put me on his phone to talk to this guy.  He was complaining about traveling so far to pay me some money.  I wasn't asking him to do anything.  And I wasn't about to sit there for 90 minutes waiting for him either.

I can hardly wait for the customer to come and get the car.

thtdon

In Memory of NationalAutow who said:

I feel your pain.

I've been faced with similar situations. I've even gone and done tows that I knew I would never be paid for because I thought it was the right thing to do.

The difference here is that he didn't ask you to help him or give him a break or whatever. He FORCED you into a position that you did not ever agree to. Basically, you called his bluff.

If people got away with doing this kind of thing a lot, then we would never get paid. If you want to be charitable and help him out, then that is your decision. When he tries to FORCE you to be charitable, well that is not charity.

When you refuse to be taken advantage of, like you did in this case, you help reinforce the fact that we all need to be paid for our services.

You clearly did the right thing and the only thing you could do under the circumstances.

On behalf of towers everywhere, "THANK YOU"

wreckerman05 said:

I am the same way--always working with people and just got tired of me loosing--if I dont get paid,I am tired of the sob stories ,my cost are still there-then its back to my lot until things are settled---good call--dont believe you are heartless-----

thtdon said:

I have thought about this situation all night.  And I keep coming to the same conclusion.  The customer knew everything that was involved before he even called Liberty Mutual.  So he gave it a shot.  Who knows?  Maybe he would have been right there with the money this morning.  But in order to find that out, I would have to take the plunge.  And then it is too late.  As long as the car remains on the truck, my mechanic's lien is in force.  Once the car is unloaded, I can't re-load it, because I realized that he couldn't/wouldn't pay.  Maybe he is the victim of the many people that have come before him who have stiffed me.  I was feeling bad because somehow I lost my Square credit card swiping device, and I offered to swing by an ATM if he needed to, like I used to do before Square.  Turns out that the lack of the swiping device wasn't an issue.  He didn't have the money anyway.  The logistics of this were against me.  It's not like he lives across the street from me, or across town.  He lives over 30 miles away, and works near where he lives.  The chances of him traveling 30 miles to pay me is slim, in my opinion.  It was hard for me to be looking down at him standing there, as I drove away.  It was probably his lowest point.  The parting was civil.  I didn't throw him out of a moving truck on the highway, or anything like that.  He was standing at the auto body shop when I drove away.  A part of me will always feel like a sleazebag.  But I know that, in the grand scheme of things, I did the right thing.

thtdon

someotherplace said:

Sleazebag? No. I'm pretty sure your truck isn't lettered "Charity Towing"

I've done pretty much the same thing, once, on a truly bizarre call. DPS trooper catches this guy drunk as can be, in a car that is not his (alleged to be his sister's), in a parking lot, inexplicably doesn't bust him.. calls my boss, who has me go out to tow this guy back to his sister's place - with the rate already agreed to. I get there and load him up, and immediately he wants me to take him first "just around the corner and let me go." I explain he just got a get-out-of-jail-free card that he didn't deserve and I wasn't going to let him loose to continue driving drunk (although that's what he probably would have done later anyway.) He can't give me an address to go to but tells me the neighborhood, so I head that way. Ask him if he needs to stop by an ATM, he wants to pay with check, I tell him no. We hit the Flying J, he goes inside, goofs around a while then comes back out. We hit the road again and within a few minutes he's asking me to take a check again?? Tell him no, we stop at another ATM, he pretends to use it then gets back in the truck. I'm pondering my options at this point so as we near the neighborhood I stop one more time and tell him he's going to need to get some cash or we're going to have a problem. He got out of the truck, and I drove away, put the car in the impound and never gave it another thought. It sat there for a couple weeks before it was picked up. As an impound it was called into the police by law here, so anybody that knew the license plate or VIN could have called and found out where it was, but I'm guessing they had a hard time coming up with someone that could prove it was their car. F 'em.

Richard

Rod VT said:

Don, You haven't said if this is a late model car with full coverage, or a POS. If he has collision & comp, then Liberty Mutual will be paying for the tows and storage, no problem. If he doesn't have coverage, and doesn't have the money for a tow, there is no way he is going to afford $3,000 to fix his car.

I certainly feel you are in the good to have kept the car. As to leaving him at the body shop, I would feel less comfortable about that and would prefer to take someone to a 24 hour store, he had a cell phone though and I am sure you didn't leave him in an unsafe area.

All that said, I typically will take a credit card over the phone from a family member in those circumstances. The only time I require one in hand is if it is a police ordered tow/impound. I require that I talk to the cardholder directly, preferably on my phone, and I get all their info: address, name, and number. Although I know it could happen, I have never yet had a chargeback, but this is Vermont and we are all a little less jaded, and perhaps somewhat naive, here.

N Mex Tow said:

That happens a lot here and I think it is just our nature to feel that way. I feel the same way UNTILL I put myself in their shoes. If it were me broke down how would I act. I would feel responsible to have the funds to pay the bill BEFORE I called anyone to come out and help me. I would feel the same way if any of our fleet needed help on the road. We have all more than once paid for someone to come out and replace a tire on the roadside. And I am sure nobody here has tried to duck the bill.

rdonchann said:

I got one of those last night. A van load of Kirby door to door people. They WERE covered to the first town that we were dispatched to. Before we got there they decided a different place farther away would be better.I told them it will be XX.XX to go there and their reply was "YEA YEA YEA we got that much." When we got there NOBODY had the money. I explained to them that this truck makes XXX.XX per hour and that is XX.XX every fifteen minutes and if they wanted to sit in the air and talk on the phone it was good for me, same price. After 45 minutes of cursing the boss over the phone, he sent them the cash. Made as much sitting in the parking lot as I did on the extra mileage.

thtdon said:

The car is a 2012 Kia Sorento.  But he called using his towing coverage through Liberty Mutual roadside assistance, and not a collision casualty claim.  So he only has $50 of coverage, period.  I called Agero to see if they could intercept the issue.  (I was reluctant to do that because I feared that they might only pay me $2 per loaded mile, rather than the $4 loaded mile that I charge for over-mileage.)  The dispatcher told me that the customer had only $50 coverage, which I already knew, and that the customer was responsible for the overage.  Sometimes they let the customer pay the over-mileage to them, using their credit card, which I don't like because we get beat out of the higher $4 a mile rate.  But this guy was flat broke, so they wanted nothing to do with him.  Nobody loves you when you have no money! 

A little while ago, I got a call from Liberty Mutual, inquiring about the charges.  The customer has faxed a signed release.  And an auto body shop from Ayer, MA is on the way to get the car.  And I will be paid in full. 

thtdon

In Memory of NationalAutow who said:

It all works out in the end Don.

You had nothing to feel bad about and you stuck to your guns and will be paid as you should.

DicksPlaceBodyandTow said:

I would call that a very good job. Can't support the whole world. We are tow truck operaters not fincial problem solvers,

BlackAutoload said:

Way to go !
If more of us stood up for ourselves our industry would be in a better place.

Silverhawk said:

They agreed not to tow any cars and I agreed not to finance the operation of anybodies car.  Works pretty good.  

shadowtowing said:

Ok I got one that kinda goes here. I got a call from agreo for a fuel delivery about 40miles from here. Quoted a rate and they approved $50 and said customer would be responsible for the rest.So I get out there and apparenly the fuys phone died and agero didnt advise him he would owe any money. I called agero and they were no help. I helped the guy out. First time with having that happen with a service call (not a tow) and wasn't sure how to handle it.

BlackAutoload said:

bill for a goa.... keep the gas.

In Memory of NationalAutow who said:

ElAgero makes no errors. If you don't believe me, just ask them.

All MC's need to take responsibility for their own actions and errors and stop putting it off on providers. I apologize to MC's that act right, You are not the target of my rant. AGERO, YOU ARE IN THE BULLSEYE.

wreck85 said:

I have no issue when someone calls and up front says they have no money then I choose to help them and get paid later that's my call, when people call and wait till the service is complete and then say oh I have no money , it pisses me off. last lady that did that was a gas delivery she knew the price and waited till the gas was in her car and as soon as it was in she said oh I have no money, I called pd and when he ran her she had a rap sheet half a mile long for stupid things like this . The officer arrested her for theft of service and Impounded her car with us.

Miracle 1 said:

With calls like yours, I call the customer after running the clubs credit card. if I don't get a answer, I clear the call as GOA...My GOA rate is always equal to what the club pays in your case my GOA would be $50 if the club is paying my normal rate for such a call my GOA would $150.00( it seems to be my favorite number on light duty stuff.......).If the customer does answer, I get their card run it for the balance owed and have them sign it when I get there....

   Going back to Don's original thought, Taking a persons car that can't pay and withheld the fact they couldn't pay doesn't make you  heartless, it makes you a smart businessman...Like everyone, I've had some where people have tried  being slick, One that comes to mind: One of my drivers carried a Pontiac 134 miles  to Tallahassee Florida after midnight, arrived at the drop off and the customer was like $50 or so short of the $600 owed so not wanting to wake up me my driver informed the customer, he'd document the ticket what he'd  paid and that he could retrieve his car at our impound yard in MacClenny and he'd cut him a break on the loaded miles back (only charged $2 per mile) In the end, we were paid by CC for everything including the re-delivery....He may have been a little heartless but I'm glad he takes as good of care of my money as I do...

boltz said:

Agree with you wreck85 , as we have had to do the same thing and call police.  When they arrived the "problem" usually became very  easy to solve and usually did  not take much time at all to discuss. 

Rod VT said:

One of the many things I have learned from Tow411 (and you all) is: Never split a bill! Does it turn out good (more often than not) for anyone?

Rockwell said:

Seems to me that the customer that thtdon was dealing with got a free taxi ride to his town. Hope he thanked you for it. We donate plenty of towing and roadside work to people we think could use the help, but it is at our discretion. I don't like when the customer tries to force the donation by deception. It's my decision to donate or not if he tells me up front he doesn't the cash.

dmurph879 said:

When I am dispatched to a call where we know that the customer is going to owe for overmilage I collect prior to leaving the breakdown location. No money no tow and I don't end up in a hard place with my boss for not collecting. I always offer to tow the car to our storage yard and hold it until they are able to obtain the necessary funds, to include storage while it is in our yard.

ronin said:

I learned this a while back, and while always trying to be a nice guy with a background in retail, customer service, etc... but also the military as a cop and drill sergeant... I ran into one in 2007 that tested me to the end and I totally changed my ways... and haven't looked back. People might think I'm a jerk... and it's not like my policy applies to little old ladies, because (a) little old ladies are geneall responsible, and (b) little old ladies don't usually pull scams.

I towed a Mazda MPV with both right side tires flat for PA state police...the lady was with it, I got her into my flatbed quickly, loaded fast, and got off the highway. The lady was venting about how bad her day was, so I didn't start the inquisition about rates and miles. She stated she wanted me to take her to Philly, 32 miles away. No problem, our state police rate was $125 and $3 a mile, so I added up and quoted $221. She lost her damned mind. I explained that it was a state police initiated tow, and after she asked, no I wasn't a racist and didn't have special rates for black people (either better or worse).

I recommended that we tow it to a tire store in King of Prussia, only a couple of miles, and her family could come get her. The rate would be $146 with 7 miles towed. She said she didn't have any money. I then asked how she was going to pay me after taking her to Philly, regardless of the price.. she stated she'd get money from rounding up her relatives.

I pulled up to the tire store, parked, called the boss, she made some calls... then we had an impass for about an hour.. until I put her on the phone with the boss, they yelled back and forth, and she walked across the street to an ATM.. and by golly, she DID have money available.

Lessons learned made me do two things differently. First, I always make sure to quote the tow rate in front of the police officer, right there on the side of the road. I explain that our contract with their department dictates the rates and I can't and won't make exceptions. With the cop nodding in agreement, the customer sees that I'm not pulling some radical number out of my butt. They know what they're paying when the get in the truck... or their bluff is called right there when they say "I don't have any money".. and I've had officers direct me to take it to our lot right there.

Also, I shortened my "nice guy" time from an hour to about 3 minutes. I'm not a jerk, won't yell or curse, but just lay things out in a matter-of-fact manner...take it or leave it.

TOM JR said:

I almost had a similar situation last saturday. I went to tow a car over a wall. I go there at customers request and did the job and got paid, I get a call Monday AM from the guy that they dont want to reimburse his claim for the tow and recovery service because he didnt call them first. The guy didnt know what to do because he never was in that situation before and they were trying to weasel out on him and only reimburse him $50. I told him to fax a coppy to the insurance and hand deliver a copy to the shop for the adjuster. I probably didnt charge the guy enough money for the job since it was a private request (?) but it was an accident claim and I dont see how they can try to scam the guy? Why does he have insurance if they wont cover towing? Sounds like the same thing happened to your guy. If he had a damage claim and the car was undrivable why is he in a spot where hes paying for the tow and not the insurance company? If I turned down everyone who didnt have the money or had to have their mom or relative pay by phone I wouldnt have any work. Nobody has money anymore. Its scarry not knowing if they will come through but they usually do thank God. Glad you got paid. It sounds more like the insurance company was playing games than anything else.

thtdon said:

In my case, it was the customer throwing a handful of mud at the wall, to see if it would stick.  He gave it a shot, and lost.  All he gained was a free ride home.  And he used his Liberty Mutual Roadside Assistance policy, not his collision policy.  And he has $50 coverage.  In the end, I'm sure that it will be processed under his collision policy because the charges were paid to me by the auto body shop that's going to repair the car. 

But in your case, I have written about this kind of thing before.  The insurance companies are strong-arming their customers to call them first- and I mean FIRST.  When in an accident, they want you to call them BEFORE you call the police, ambulance, and especially a tow truck.  They want to control the cost of everything.  Before long, they will contract with private ambulance companies, to respond at THEIR request, to the scene of an accident, because the insurance-requested ambulance will take the victims to the hospital cheaper than the town-owned, or town-contracted ambulance will.  Does that sound likely to you?  It does to me, considering the direction that the insurance companies are going.  They direct their customers to use the glass company that THEY want, and the are directing their customers to take their car to the auto body shop that THEY want.  The insurance company's role is getting out of hand, and we have to stop them somehow. 

State Farm Insurance is contracted with Agero to provide roadside assistance, similar to Liberty Mutual, USAA, Progressive, etc.  And they are demanding 30 minute ETAs for road service, and 45 minute ETAs for tows, all for the same price as our regular 60 minute ETAs.  They want premium service for the regular price.  State Farm is pushing this, not Agero.  But if they are successful, and they can get us to move faster for less money, we are all taking a pay cut.  And the other insurance companies will want the same thing.  So you have to dig in your heels, and not go along with that.  I haven't had a raise from Agero since 1997.  And after 16 years, I am not about to accept a pay cut.

thtdon

Skyline Detroit said:

im confused. if he has full coverage why wouldn't you just cancel the call tow it back to the body shop in the morning and bill them?

Diesel Wrecker said:

HI thtdon. I have one question about this story. What happen to the deer?

thtdon said:

I don't know.  I never saw it.  It probably ran off the road, and died somewhere in the woods.  Better than on the hood, half through the windshield, like one I did a few years ago.  The driver was lucky.  He was alone in the car, and most of the carnage came through the passenger side of the car.  Most of the deer that I see hit around here are about the size of a big dog.

thtdon

Topic was created by Internationalstar in October of 2013:

 

Spitz said:

I just ordered some frogg toggs, will let you know how they are.

 

 Scooby said:

I have WreckMaster rain gear. going on 6 years.

 

Chuck with Noltes : ^^^Like^^^

 

Towman21  said:

I don't have but Wreck master is good.  We personally use rain gear from Badger Glove and Safety.  http://www.badgergloveandsafety.com/  We use the coat with the removable vest and non insulated pants.  We wear these pretty much year around.  They keep us dry during the winter and it is not overly bulky so you can still do all of our work.

 

Spitz said:

Got the frog toggs in, not really a fan of them or the fit. Would be something I would consider to throw in a car for emergency or use for mud running with a 4 wheeler but not for working in a ditchline, just not strong enough material.

 

ASAPautomotive  said:

Frog Toggs are amazing when fishing or running the boat on the lake, but not so for the work environment. They just wont handle the grease and sharp edges we run in to.

 

Spitz said:

Yeah, I got my eyes on the occunomix brand, looks like they are a lot sturdier.

 

TowZone said:

About 10 years ago I purchased a Occunomix Occulux Rain Extended Coat. That has been the best rain coat ever and it still looks good after 10 years. Sadly, I do not believe they offer this Extended Coat any longer. I really liked that it came down past the knees and hope that I can find another when this one does wear out. Oh, the upper portion of the jacket is Yellow and the lower portion is Black. There is some reflective material as well.

 

Spitz said:

Just bought some rain gear from here: https://www.reflectiveapparel.com/

Turned out to be really nice stuff and it fit perfectly for me. They give the sizes of everything and when ordering online you NEED to have.

 

New Zealand Towing said:

I asked who the police supplier is for their wet weather gear and pickup the same gear looks more professional when on site doing a police callout only issue I have had is they are to warm if your working hard you cook in them but the thermal lining is removable so you can pull it out if you have to

 

GregTowzIt said:

I have been looking for a trench rain coat for a while now, and the quality just isnt there anymore.

 

Insurance For Wreckers said:

Bought Occunomix Gear last year. Its okay, the sizing is entirely off the chart wrong. Took it to the local Law Enforcement supply where I buy my 5.11 uniform pants to have it taken in accordingly and it still wasn't right. Gave it to another operator, he loves it. So the only thing I have to complain about is the sizing.

Went with Spiewak (spiewak.com) this time, it's what the Missouri State Highway Patrol wears, no complaints yet. They make everything from simple uninsulated gear to parkas with zip-in fleece and thermal liners.

New Zealand Tow said it perfectly. I've had more luck using appearal designed for law enforcement than I ever did using the uniform company's clothing. 5.11 Tac Lite Pro pants, Danner Acadia boots, ANSI shirts - that's a toss up between a few different manufacturers depending upon weather conditions.

 

TowZone said:

VisGaurd, every review I have read is negative. Occulux is obviously not the quality it was a few years ago. I am going to be looking hard for a new quality rain gear. I may have to buy a few different ones so keep an eye out as I review them over the next few months. If anyone here has purchased new rain gear recently please inform us of our membership of your experience.

 

Towman33 said:

I have the brilliant series jacket & pants from ML kishigo very nice fit keeps the water out pretty well and the prismatic stripping really stand's out in the rain.

 

krnydsl said:

I have a Lacrosse coat that always looks dirty but has held up very well.

 

TowZone said:

These would be of interest to me, however I am concerned about what they mean by adjustable wrist wraps.

 

https://mlkishigo.com/product/long-rain-coat-rwj108-rwj109/

 

gen5towman said:

I wear frog toggs and my vest. I know its not great to wear the vest but frogg toggs are the best rain gear i have ever worn.

 

ATR1 said:

ill second the frog toggs for the top and as strange as it sounds wal mart has some pants that fit better to me the ones i have are black and like a cargo pant with a rip stop material for like 20 bucks, but i spray mine with the stuff you use to keep tents water proof about every month depending on use and ive been wearin the same pair for a little over a year now

 

Towvts said:

Try Galeton.com. My dad and I both bought suits off of them. You don't know you have them on! They breath very well and still keep you warm and dry. No they're not insulated. Put a sweat shirt under them and was warm all winter.

 

Leroy Hedrick  said:

WRECKMASTER turn-out gear dry and warm plus grease wipes right off

 

dollartow  said:

My set of turn out gear are three years old and still look good
Terry

 

Heffy004 said:

Myself & a few employees still have the WreckMaster "Turn Out Gear".....That I purchased in 2000.
PLUS......To my limited knowledge (?) it meets OSHA ANSI 3 requirements.
HEFFY

 

 

 

 

Topic Created on Tow411 in 2012 by Reds :

I see a lot of conversation of towing garbage trucks/packers etc on here and even though there alot more common in the bigger cities we still see them in the midwest, my question is I've read alot on rear towing these units but I've always wondered how that would be done as any garbage truck i've had to move has always rolled down the road on ones with rearend issues we pull axles etc the normal stuff but if there out there pictures of rear tows on the front loads and just your average everyday conventional garbage truck.   Thanks

svcmgrnow said:

Is the question 'How' or 'Why'??

..."my question is I've read alot on rear towing these units but I've always wondered how that would be done as any garbage truck i've had to move has always rolled down the road on ones with rearend issues we pull axles etc the normal stuff "........

I've towed one or two from the rear over the years, and if there isn't a critical problem (i.e. burned up wheel bearing, broken spring pack, broken axle housing, broken trunion or walking beam) it's not really worth the risk involved. It is not the same as towing an empty dump truck from the rear weight-wise, and you need a lot of truck and an experienced operator to get it done safely, and that's when they're empty. More truck and more operator required when they've got weight in them. 

Front end trucks can normally be forked on the frame or at the tag axle if equipped....................

Rear loaders are all different, usually use chain forks or end caps, aluminum angle and wood, run the chains under the hopper to a secure part of the chassis, either crossmember, frame rails, or pat of the rear suspension........

Towgodess14 said:

These trucks had a cracked rearend housing. Not my first choice to tow but it can be done.They are heavy and you have to be stretched out a lot to clear. One of the big issues is over loading the front axle of the trash truck. Heavy to begin with, load transfer makes it far worse. Height is also something to watch out for.

Unknown member said:

I prefer to remove the dot bumpers and tow bar them with end caps at the end of the frame rails. Chains ran forward to what ever you can get. Less weight on the tow truck. Be careful on expeditors rear towing you are transferring a lot of weight forward and the ends of the front frame rails are very weak. They break off just driving down the road.We get a damage waiver signed before rear towing them even thou we do all there towing.

Reds  said:

The ones I was referring to is the type with the barrel back like the single axle and the green tandem I would like some close ups on the hook-ups.  I get the grab the frame/crossmember something solid but how the chains come around to the tow-bar I'm guessing is what's used. can a guy run the chains right on the barrel or do you need to crib it somewhere? Had one a few weeks back that grenaded the rear axle houseing and pulling axles was a ... hookin from the rear would've been quicker easier I've just never done it and don't want any problems if/when I do do it.   Thanks

lad12der said:

Yes on the rear loaders you can grab and section of frame. ( I grab from in front of the front rear)   Then up under the belly of the hopper and then up to chain forks.  Depending on whats on the back of the hopper you then can either use a piece of angle iron or atleast old mud flaps and sling the truck.   If the hopper has tippers or such on the back you can still sling them you just have to ensure none of the lines are pinched etc.   Sorry I don't have any pics on hand,  I'm sure Mr Jason most likly has em.  Next one I get I will try to photograph.

svcmgrnow said:

Is it just me, or is this the only topic on this entire forum in nano-font?? wtf?? My eyes are bad enough......lol

First, make sure the turnbuckles that hold the hopper against the rear of the body are tight and in good condition. Chain routing under the hopper is nothing special, they can usually handle the weight of being 'cradled' like that but if there are weak points 4x6's are handy. The back is where it gets tricky. At the least I usually have to remove the inner lights and grommets so my angle iron doesn't damage them and a 4x6 under the rear lip helps spread the weight out across the back. The ones with hydraulic can tippers are even trickier, some un-towable, some not. You're going to have to figure those out. It can be done, and I have pics, but no way I'm posting them on here because my sanity would be questioned...........

The fact is that regardless of the type of failure (springs, bearing, housing) or location (left or right, front or rear tandem) most can be towed from the front with some work, some chains, some wood and a tire guy. All they have to do is roll........that's what I do when they're loaded.

Couple More Three-Leggers, Bad Front Paws

Had two of these in the last week. First one had the wheel bearing fail on the front left tandem, walked the wheels/hub/axle out a foot or so. Driver stopped driving it when truck stopped moving in the middle of a busy resedential neighborhood. Apx 3/4 loaded with yard waste. No action pics, too busy dodging angry home owners that think their trash magically disappears after being placed at the curb!! Lfted the rear and blocked up rear tandem, removed wheels from front axle and slid hub/drum assy back over brake shoes as far as it would go with brakes released. Set parking brake and blocked off air line so brake shoes would hold the hub in as I came down the road. Gently towed back home.

Second unit broke down in the left turn lane into the landfill, broken spring bucket on right front tandem, and needless to say, they don't go to the landfill empty!! Lifted rear, blocked front and rear axles on right side, and hooked from front. Eased on to the scale, truck came in at 62,240lbs, then off to the top of the hill to give birth!

Front tandem.......once load was off, there was no weight on this block, was removed for tow back to customer's shop.

Up to the top of the hill.............

Truck is dilated and ready to give birth........

Ahhhh, much better now, time to go home.....................

ATR1 said:

are you just lifting from under the back door flat on the crossbar, had one the other day and would have made it easier to get the wheels off and axle blocked but didn't trust the back of the body

svcmgrnow said:

Yeah, those particular Leach bodies are stout, but definitely worth checking the turnbuckles securing the hopper to the body prior to lifting.

Eric Smith aka Just Another Hooker said:

Ahh yes, From the top of Brown station the view is great !!! On a clear day, you can see the White House.

srvmgrnow said:

Had this one last week, front end truck out on the D.C. Beltway, right side wheel bearing on rear tandem trashed, loaded with cardboard. Jacked up rear and removed wheels, lucked out w/hole in subframe for hydraulic lines and ran 2 3/8's grade 80 chains/binders, then blocked up front tandem. Could not find an oak 2x4 on my truck to save my life, had to improvise with a random pull pin to make up difference between frame stop and my handy-dandy Mack frame stop channel, limped off Beltway and back to customer's yard, apx. 8mi. @ 30mph max speed. Customer happy, but not as happy as I was to remove from the back of my truck!!

Customer: Just a little light cardboard on her...........
Me: A little light cardboard doesn't make its own gravy............especially in front of the tandems!

Old school hook up - chains under front axle, over tie rod, hooked into frame behind rear spring hanger so I could keep her as close to the ground as possible.

Sometimes you just get lucky when you need to..........

Pretty? No. Pretty effective? Oh yeah.

Concern about that pin moving? Well I know that gravity is only a theory, but I'm a firm believer!

No style points but got her from A to B.

capptow said:

nice tow. With all the time you spent under that packer i bet your glad it wasnt 100 degrees and magot soup.

ryan

ratif3 said:

Been there, Done that!!! good job!

Brinkleys said:

Looks good to me. Common sense is great tool to have in ur box. Firm believer in gravity as well.

mrbill said:

A well thought out plan congrats

Jerrys Road Service said:

Thats thinking outside the box

Just Another Hooker said:

See I told you could do it !! Now lets go see Dr Powell and his magic blocks. 

                                                                                               Eric S.

svcmgrnow said:

Yeah, this getting old crap sucks, the mind needs jump starting every now and then, thanks for letting me bounce some ideas off you. Really, with one small oak 2x4 (now available at the local Int dealer, and coincidentally now in stock on my truck!), it would have been perfect and I could have collected "style" points!! lol Don't think the good Dr. has his blocks anymore, but I kind of prefer spreading the weight out with the oak anyway. 

Towmanjc said:

Do you tow them the same way if the are grossed out?? I had a tri-axle rear loader with the right rear with a bad wheel bearing. I got off the road until mechanic can look at it..The one I got has walking beam suspension..
Any ideas??

svdngrnow said:

Yeah, same deal. This one was probably in the 55K-57K GVW range but I've had 'em heavier. Getting that front tandem blocked up really well is the important part, that's achieved by jacking the rear axle up as high as possible when removing the wheels and chaining it up, then block up the front and let it down. Not a pleasant tow but gets the job done.

I was asked to clarify something on this tow as it affected another tow company here locally last week. My customer diagnosed this breakdown as a brake problem; it wasn't until I took a little closer look that I realized the severity of the issue (gear oil all over underside of body, brake shoes 1/2" out of drum were real obvious signs). Never take what your customer tells you as fact when it comes to wheel/brake problems, it can end up like this:

Or if your looking for real headaches, like this:

Yeah, that's Heat 'N Glo alright, misdiagnosed by both customer and tower as brake problem and I can only assume costly to both!

From what I understand, boys from Montgomery County Fire Dept. responded to this vehicle up in Gaithersburg due to right rear being "en fuego", at which point tow service was called by owner to bring back to PG. I can only assume everyone involved thought it was a brake issue because a) all the brake chambers had been pinned, no sign of air run to truck, and b) who in their right mind would tow a packed out front end truck from the front from Gaithersburg to Bladensburg on a bad rear wheel bearing?? Either way, made it to the DC Beltway @ Riggs Rd. before it required serious attention from the PG Fire Dept. From what the people at the repair shop told me (and from the marks on the packer body subframe) unit reached it's destination being towed from the rear off the Beltway?!?!? Bet that wasn't a fun tow, ICC bar still intact so tall forks and stands would've been needed, as well as a large set of balls...........unit is loaded heavy.

MTA412 said:

WOW! I don't see no way in hell the steer tires/king pins/spring shackles would hold up under the weight of a rear tow. I smell a RGN in that trucks future!!!

Topic Originally Created in May of 2012 by Fantonio247:

Century 612 with Dump truck

A freightliner classic

reckmaster1 said:

is that not a little much for the ole' 12 ton?

upNout said:

Patton's 5 Star Towing
29700 Lorain RD.
North Olmsted OH. 44070
440-777-4070
Fax, 440-777-4028

 

InternationalStar said:

wow talk about having big balls i would never do that

 

Greenwich Towing said:

wow I put a F-550 on mine and I think im doing something.

Greenwich Towing
www.greenwichtowing.com
Steven R. Peterson

 

Silverhawk  said:

I would like to say never, but that is the way we used to do it back in the 60's and 70's, when we were young and dumb and full of ?  Had a Studebaker with a 525 Holmes w/hydraulic brakes.  Would be put under the jail if we tried that these days.

I will say that I will never do it like that now.  Got wiser in my old age.  Safety is now job one, not the ability to get it done anyway we can. 
203-869-5523

 

dragonwagonII said:

I have a 12 ton iv towed a dump truck from the front , either that dump is damn heavy or your rear springs are giving pretty easy . Mine is only 96 ca and it didnt go front lite as your truck would appear to be in the photo . I picked up an IHC which is a lighter truck .

That dump would be what , 18 to 20 K , 10 to 12 on the front axel .  Seems to me he is with in the ablity of a 12 ton but that photo looks like his rear springs are sure sagging .

Um the truck is empty i assume !

BalckAutoload said:

The pics are terrible... hard to see how you are hooked.
Chain thru tow hooks ?

morrisandsons said:

Please stop. Spend some time researching the way things are done and the true capability of your truck. What you are doing is unsafe, and you could really hurt yourself or someone else.

Acestowing said:

Bryce Weber - Aces Towing
WM 091409 Level 6/7
1-519-889-3350

 

fantonio247 said:

thanks for all your comments, I'm in El Salvador, I just wanted to show my work.

 

timstruckservice said:

Noticing that things are done differently in other parts of the world, It appears that your Unit has Air Brakes and hopefully a Steel Tow Bar instead of a Sling ! Guessing this is the Largest Truck you have for Towing with ?

 

A Century 612 is a Nice Unit and Capable of alot of things, but Personally I would not Attempt to Tow something that Large / Heavy with our 12 Ton. Nice to see someone from El Salvador on here Posting .... Hopefully You will continue to Post more & take Constructive Criticism as a good thing - not as Bashing.

 

wreck85 said:

You got the job done i would presume you are tapped into the brakes or running a brake buddy , if not that was a white knuckle ride . I had an 897 on a topkick and the brakes and the pul power were the issue the truck would lift all day and not say no but the chassis was screaming.

 

fantonio247 said:

"upNout wrote:Ya have to love Tow411. LMAO"

 

you're so right.

 

"wreck85 wrote:You got the job done i would presume you are tapped into the brakes or running a brake buddy , if not that was a white knuckle ride . I had an 897 on a topkick and the brakes and the pul power were the issue the truck would lift all day and not say no but the chassis was screaming."

 

well, my truck it's the Topkick C7 I think, air brakes, all double frame, rt6610 tranny and turned up cat 3116, the power never was a issue, when I'm towing my top speed it's about 50 mph on 8th gear, and I really love the mpg of this truck.

 

Here is some recent towing.

 

 

 

 

 

Acestowing said:

We went to El Salvador to a resort 2 years ago, the roads and traffic system there are much different than ours, if I remember correctly there is minimal rules on the road? Our bus ride was 2 hours, speed really seemed to be enforced there but saftey of commercial vehicles was much different from ours.
I saw the rural fire stations too, very minimal equipment.
You have to do the job with what you have, I only saw single axle wreckers there, a lot of old holmes units. We went through a fatal accident where a garbage truck had rolled, with kids on board, it was a very sad thing to see.
Its nice to see towing from other parts of the world! What other equipment does your company run? Is that your biggest wrecker?

Bryce Weber - Aces Towing
WM 091409 Level 6/7
1-519-889-3350

 

Reds  said:

Century 12 ton  translates to 24,000lbs. boom  looks to have a 12,000 steer(rating) on the dump the old Holmes truck bars the smaller ones were rated at what? 8000lbs lift 50,000 tow?? I think the big ones were 13,000 lift and 80,000 tow,  most likely 7/16ths wire rope cant tell in the dump photo for sure but in the second one it appears as lines are doubled. pretty sure everyone agrees that size of wrecker isn't going to pick that dump loaded. I think hes within the "ratings" of everything (and being from elsalvador..what ratings/laws-lol) Hook 'er up and let that dog eat!!! Heck air brakes on the wrecker unit that chassis isn't really and lighter or shorter than the old fords or chevys with the 600's on the back and guys towed stuff like that all day and everyday.

 

 

The Following was a topic of discussion on Tow411 in 2017:

So I have been playing with HONK a bit.... the first tow I did for them was a total pain with phone calls, etc.  The price was set at our normal hookup rate and 5 free miles.  Short story, it wasn't worth the headache.  

They kept calling for more jobs, and I got tired of it.  I thought it would solve the problem by going into their system and maxing out the rates as high as they would allow.  Boy was I wrong.  I dunno if it was coincidence or what, but the day after I went to the highest that their slide bar on their site would allow I got 3 jobs from them that all happened to be local decent jobs.  Especially for the rates.  $95 light service, etc. and even a tow at $95 + $4/ mile with no free miles. 

The jobs actually went well, and paid right away, etc.  That I can work with.  Now the past week, they keep calling me with the automated system, and I accept a job with a short eta and all (for the rates that i am set at, i don't mind).  The last 3 in a row they call back and say we see that you have accepted a job, are you still available. I say yes, and they go on to say would you be able to do the job for $84.  At that point I tend to flip out on them... If my rate is set at $95, why are you calling me asking me to accept $84.  NO... I wont.  Just on principal alone, even if its in my own parking lot. (Hahaha.... well, maybe).  It just annoys me.  They are quickly going to get the boot from me.

rlc4523 said:

The Automated system alone annoys the heck out of us with the Horn Honk Sound when you answer. We have done several jobs for them and have had no problems to really complain about other than a couple of weeks ago they called us for what originally sounded like a short tow in the next town north of us. I start taking the info and then lastly the dispatcher says "oh I should tell you there are 3 passengers" so I tell her I can only take 2 passengers in my truck. She replies "well 1 passenger is a 6 month old it can ride on someone's lap"............ REALLY ?!?! I politely replied that I would not do that and that it was against the Law in my state. She was actually stumped that I wouldn't take the call because of that??? Fast Forward 1hr, Honk calls again with a different dispatcher, same call, I stop him short asking him if they made arrangements for the passengers yet because I can not take 3 passengers in my truck. He says "No we have not but 1 of the Passengers is a 6 month old......." I again told him that it was against the law and he was stumped also. I suggested they call a company with an extended cab, call a taxi, or they can pay us to take a second truck up to play taxi (which they apparently didn't want to do). I was out of the office at the time and when I came back I had an email from Honk with the tow details.....they weren't in the town north of us just going across town they were actually 15 miles North of that town at a rest area ON THE FREEWAY. They expected me to transport them down the freeway with a 6 month old sitting on mom's lap. I DON"T THINK SO.

Common Sense people.... in what world would that be remotely ok?!?. It took me almost a week but I finally got a hold of one of the top people for Honk and I do believe there is going to be some mandatory dispatcher re-training!!!

 

towmaterbend said:

super annoying to get a call, that you CANNOT pause, to bid a job that lacks all the details, and then go through the bid only to be told, "you are unlikely to get the job because your bid is over the maximum of 84.00.... would you like to rebid?"

i predict major changes to alstates foray into the most annoying dispatch system on planet earth.

 

Red Top Recovery  said:

Probably "win" 1 of 5 jobs, they started calling in with a live person when I hang up because to we're too busy to even offer a quote which adds to agitation.

 

MrsHook said:

When i answer the phone and the greeting is an annoying recording of a car horn, i hang up. Maybe they think it's cute .... I think it's rude. Ive no idea who they are or what they do .... I can't get past the horn. Lol

 

@ESC @towmaterbend @Red Top Recovery @MrsHook

 

This Topic Originally created in 2017.

ESC said:

Allstate .... what can you do except laugh.

They want me to go 70 miles enroute for a 12 mile tow. And they recommend I provide a 30 minute or less eta.

It just irritates me that they can call and bother me about this sort of job, yet they can’t call me for one broken down in my own parking lot. They send someone else.

LouW said:

Been asked a few times this weekend for 2 different local tows 5 miles thats about 40 plus miles from me. Waste of tying up my phone line. I also like the calls i already said no to when they send it over tow magic and they call me anyway. That's when I say ok ill go that far for my commercial rate.

This Topic was created on Tow411 in Mar of 2009:

Mathew106 :

Get a call on the interstate. Get the authorization # and were on our way to customer. Get on scene and customer said car runs great, don't need ya. My driver leaves and I call for a GOA. I call Signature to get the GOA and while i'm on the phone customer calls back and asks that the driver return and pick him up 2 miles further down the road. Wasn't running so great after all? I call Signature back to request the GOA and a new autorization #.

1st call. I explain the situation to the dispatcher. He explains that he has to call the member to confirm.....( because I am a Liar I guess) After waiting several minutes I get hung up on.

Customere calls me direct again and told me his motor club called by digital recording and requested if the tow was in process and he advised yes. He asked if that was a problem. I told him we were not approved to do another run yet. He said, Well the driver could not have gone far. I said thats right, but he did go and since he left the scene after you refused our service this will be a new run.

2nd call. I re-explain the entire conversation to the new dispatcher. Sir, I'll have to put you on hold while I get you that #. 10 minutes later she returns and gives me the same exact run number as before. I advised her I needed a new run # and explained one more time what had happenned. Guess what, yep, disconnected again.

I call my driver only to find the car had been reloaded onto the flat bed and it was now in motion. I advised him to pull off and wait for a run #.

3rd call. I had to explain again the entire situation to a new dispatcher. On hold again I was. She came back on line and explained it would be awhile because the prior dispatcher had left for the day.. 15 minutes later I finally recieved a new # to complete the second run.

Two days ago signature called from India. He asked if we could do a run and gave me the specifics. I said yes we can with a 20 minute ETA. He said great, what company are you with? I said WHAT??? You meen to tell me you called a service provider of sinature motor club and you don't know who we are?? He said very sorry sir whats the name of your company? I started laughing and told him my co. name. He said I was not in the system. I laughed harder and explained that it is a shame a customer is sitting along side of a busy interstate, and will be for quite some time because you cant figure out the info on the company you called to give them assistance. I explained that he could call back when comes to grasp with his surroundings. 20 minutes later he called back and I finally got a run #.

Is this what we can expect in future years to come? If so, I'm buying an ice cream truck!

Riddle's 24 Hour Towing and Lockout LLC
94 Clay Street 
Cadiz KY 42211
270-350-6368
https://www.facebook.com/riddlestowing

 

DavidV440:

i'd go for the ice cream truck,at least you'll have good humour lol!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WEBOSLH:

Had a jump start run about a month ago. Customer was on phone to sig when I arrived. Cust called me at base. Sig would not re-imberse her run be cause I wasn't on the call list. I asked her who she called, AARP I think, and I called and talked to dispatch and after a few minutes India tells me I'm not on the call list. I tell them I am on the list, I hold for a few more minutes and they said I wasn't but would I take care of their customer. Oh, but of course! My Rate! Sig agreed, did the job. All is well.
About a week later I get an E-mail from the reg rep stating I have been put on a hold for doing runs. No reason given. Then I get an e-mail wanting to know my rates for sig. You know that answer. Haven't heard a thing for about a month. Still on hold I guess.
Either they have someone coming in town from elsewhere or someone is doing runs for less than fifty dollars per run.

 

oklatom:

Well, it could be someone is doing it for less than $50 a call, but not because they want to or set those rates. I've been shorted twice now since they seem to think my rate is $25, which is equal to what they told it was after the merger, but since I didn't agree to that...

 

papaskeeb2:

Good luck with getting paid... I had the same thing, my driver shows up to a break down, the lady is pulling out. Calls and cancels, got a po for goa. 5 minutes later i get a call, now she is in the middle of the road car shut off again. Told them I needed a po for the tow, they gave it to me. But like always when you goto claim a po for someone that had 2 services in one day, you cant do it online. The the real kick in the teeth was there was no money allowed on second po.
Mailed them in 3weeks ago. no check yet

 

twotows:

LOL With all the issues everyone seems to be having with them, why is anybody taking their calls? Dispatch issues, too much time on the phone. Payment issues. Originally when I got their "change of rates" with no contract we stopped until we could negotiate with our rep, (which by the way has never called) . But now I don't think I would take them back on board due to payment issues.

 

@Mathew106

This was a Topic of Discussion on Tow411 in 2008:

Charlie Rittenhouse:

Received letter today from allstate they are now putting my area up for bid. letter is real vage wants price bid western suffolk which is huge area.According to the letter if i win the bid i am guaranteed the 1st call everytime. i must answer 90% or better call volume have less then 60 minute eta. I am allreday the primary in my area with 98% call answer. I am guessing now that they combined with GE i know have to have a bidding war with there primary.

GEMMATOW:

i got the same letter, allstate wants my to handle all of nassau county, what a choir that would be,will all the traffic conditions & not too mention severe weather conditions,on long island

WEBOSLH:

Charlie, this isn't directed to you personally, only at what I see as an avenue for the cheapening of the towers for allstate.I haven't gotten the "packets" or the "letters", but if they want me to bid on my area , however big it should be, I'll bid twice my retail rate. That way when the primary is too busy to catch all the runs, or burns out , all they have left is ME. So I'll be able to do one run and make twice the money and profit. And what the primary makes in two runs ,with twice the expenses ,and maybe half the profit he should get from one run.
On some bids , it may not always be good to select the cheapest bidder. What if the primary can't keep his end of the contract? Is he sent down to the minors? (Good grief , what could be lower than _____.?) Then does the "other" provider become the primary? How long is the contract good. How long does the award winning lowest bidder got to work for peanuts before he can ask for a raise? If an award is given to the lowest bidder, what is to keep allstate from going after an even cheaper provider. Can the first Primary be under cut and made a back-up? What about the contract stating an"exclusive" area and rate?
Why not just raise the premiums across the country one dollar on each person covered by allstate. Take that money to pay truly fair and profitable rates to their providers. Then this potential can of worms will never be opened.
Oh! Silly me! I forgot we're dealing with an INSURANCE COMPANY, and we have all done that!

tlw towing:

I just talked to my allstate rep the can of worms is open already! He told be they are doing it in some areas and likely will expand it.

ExpressTowAaron:

We quit Allstate as soon as I got my letter saying they were lowering my rates because I used to be a GE contractor and they paid me less... It is very funny when Allstate calls, we refuse and then we mysteriously get a private call 45 mins later for the same car in the same place.

tlw towing:

Got my letters today! Allstate lowered rates to Ge rates.

GEMMATOW:

not for nothing but in my opinion, the reason why us towing companies, find it harder to get better rates is because the roadside assistance only companies do our road calls for less &, take away at least 40 % of our once profitable business !!!

Charlie Rittenhouse:

i agree thr e roadside assist company's showing up in hyundai's in my area take 5000 calls a year Allstate says they use them because they found a drop of 10% in cars being towed useing roadside only. they state that they feel we would do a fake jump recommend a shop and get a kick back.

annettemcd:

It goes back to the issue that the motor clubs do not trust the towers. They question our mileage on tows and they think that we will fake a jumpstart to turn it into a tow. Plus who gets kickbacks from shops? I certainly don't. If the motor clubs can trust us to handle the expensive vehicles of their clients, why can they not trust our dealings with them?

On the other hand, how many towers have handled jobs where a jump didn't work and the vehicle needed a second call for a tow?

Most towers that I have talked to recently do not respond with a tow truck to a jump anyway, unless it is dispatched as a jump/possible tow or a long distance call where the reason for the need for the jump is unknown. Why drive a tow truck, if you have a service vehicle that can respond and I would imagine that most towers now have service vehicles in addition to their tow trucks.

I think some of the reasons that roadside only businesses offer lower rates is because they do not have the same levels of expenses, but I think that there is also a major possibility that some of them have business plans which are not well thought out and they are operating at low or no profit and may not even realize it yet.

Angeltowing:

The problem with the roadside only companies is us towers. We let the clubs change there original call volume %s with out renegotiating our rates. I know when I negotiated my rates a lifetime ago I was told by the reps that you can tow for a little less and get the volume on the roadside assist calls. They had a revenue per call mentality. That worked throughout the early 1990s. We would make a profit because our call volume would be up, and a good percentage of calls were jumps and lockouts. I didnt have to add trucks to do volume. When the roadside companies came along we lost the profit. The revenue per call was not negotiable. You know the old " you are the highest paid in the area" line. We were still getting $xx.xx for tows. The only thing is,now it is 100% tows. No more roadside. Now to get 20 calls done in a day you need 2 trucks. Back then 2 trucks could do 40 calls. I miss towing for the motor clubs and MAKING A PROFIT.

Hey Charlie, I also had gotten that letter. Havent had a chance to look at it but dont worry, I think the double retail idea may be a good one. I wont under bid ya, I promise.

One thing we all can do is insist on contracts with term limits. Why have a contract that never comes to an end. If you are handling a lot of calls for a club and your contract is about to expire they will be willing to negotiate. Lets face it, they are going to look for the cheapest guy anyway, but if they need you they will negotiate. Isnt that how everyone else negotiates a contract. Think about it. Do you ever here of a Baseball player with an unlimited contract with no term. Why do we let no term contracts be the standard for our business.
Sorry for the rant. Just my thoughts.
Mike

13thrattler:

I got my letter today through e-mail. They want me to bid on my own area.
OK------------I'm the only one in this area-------------SO----------I'm going to bid $10.00 more on the hook-up and 0.50 more on the mileage.

Let's see if they send me any more stupid letters.
Gilbert

myerstowing :

I have never heard of a motorclub putting out a bid? Unless it was AAA or something, does that mean if you "win" you enter a contract, not an agreement?

firemedic:

Gilbert, I also got mine this evening through the email. I was going to trash it because I am the only one in my area also, but I think I will do like you, bid more and see what they say. Bet I get a call or a letter telling me they will not use me anymore. Call volume areas? Not me, maybe 8-10 a month in my area, the rest out of area, but areas I am sometimes at so I get those also cause they don't have anyone out there.

Annettemcd:

Ha! firemedic you call that rural.

I would be happy with half that many calls in a year. I can not remember when I last had a call from Allstate or GE/Financial in my area. I do not think that there has been more than one this year (and I do not think that a significant number are going to other towers).

firemedic:

Yeah, but I am somewhat near a civilized world. Just kidding.

Honestly, I applaud you for being able to live and work in Alaska. Beautiful country, my cousin was a state trooper up there near Anchorage after getting out of the Army. I visited once and loved it, but I grew up on the Texas coast, it was way too cold up there for me. Heck, I lived in Oklahoma for a year and you could tell I was from Texas due to being the only one bundled up in September.

I do have a rural area for my part of the country, but you are right you have me beat. Have you gotten a letter yet?

13thrattler:

Annette, you are not rual, you are remote. Which is just this side of LOST.

Gilbert

Annettemcd:

Yep, sometimes I miss the civilized world. No, I haven't gotten a letter yet to bid for my area. I am not holding my breathe either.

Does your cousin still live up here in the Far North? You should come visit some time. (It gets into the 90s in the summer. (Really!))

firemedic:

Annette, I haven't talked to him in about 4-5 years, I think he does, just don't know where.

Unknown:

Well it happened to us also we received another dreaded halfA** written email from the above motor club today . We Started out in Shock but should have seen it coming , Listen Allstate Just payed alot of money for these guys , they want to keep their jobs , So let's do it on the backs of the towers AGAIN!
Anyway , THIS CAN OF WORMS IS OPEN . If they manage to get the towers to lower their rates through a bid process and save money , than , MAKE NO MISTAKE, All the motor clubs will follow !! This will be just the start of it , you think Cross country rates are bad ,you haven't seen nothing yet ! In some states what they did with the contacts you had and forcing the lower rates on you is illegally but now that the are one and moving toward a bid not much you can do !! EXCEPT !! Use you head and good business sense bid at a rate that you can make a living at and feed your family and employees at . Don't fall for this You will get top priority CRAP( for how long ) . This is all about PRICE, not service or anything else . They will carry this to the people who give them the contracts(aarp , ins companies etc ) and tell them the towers will do this and this is what WE agree to do in exchange .

myerstowing :

Well I got the Email today, in California it has now hit coast to coast, so Annette Alaska may be next! How long does it take to send an email to Alaska? Just kidding. I am going to send it in with much higher rates, let the others burn out and I will take the $$ calls? I dont understand how they want their "bid"? The email doesnt have much information.

Unknown:

Please everyone , some good insight here , If they manage to drive the price down with a bid the road will get worse for everyone , all M/C will follow !!

That dont count on you bidding like you are running a business , they count on you bidding like it is ok to do the work as long as you have a little money in your pocket to pay for fuel . Use Your Head , Look at The Numbers !! Not just the Volume thay promise .

Remember the old saying , you cant buy watermelons for a dollar and sell for a dollar and make money !! (even with and bigger truck to haul them ! ) it is still and dollar for a dollar and YOU did all the work for nothing ...

Atrmick :

They just sent us a rate agreement. Heck of a lot better than Cross Country. We will give them a try and see how they do when comes to paying. With CCMC we have had very little problems. So far I have always received calls back from our rep if I needed to talk to them.

Here is the bottom line for us. When we no longer like the deal we are getting from them, then we will stop doing business with them under their rates.

@Charlie Rittenhouse @Gemmatow @annettemcd @Angeltowing @myerstowing @Firemedic @atrmick

Drivers Pay Discussion from 2004:

Columbia Tow:

We start our drivers out at 25% commission on everything they do. We do not cheat our drivers out of mileage though like some companies out here do. We run this for the first 90 days to see if the driver is compatible with us and vice versa. If the driver has prior towing experience, then we raise them to 27% after the 90 day "getting to know you" phase of their employment. Drivers with no prior experience must wait 1 year before moving up the pay scale. It works pretty good here.

13thrattler:

I pay a weekly salary for Mon. thur Friday--8 to-6. Anything they do during company hrs. is just earning that weekly pay check.
After hrs. is 25% of the gross. If a driver goes out at 4pm. and returns anytime after 6pm. (closing) he gets $15.00 per hr. If he goes out at 5:30 and gets back 4 hr. latter than the call is his.
However if he gets back at 6:30 then the call is the companies.
It is a give a take situation, you just have to use your head, and be fair.
Not all calls fall into the "his or mine" category.
Gilbert

Jeepers1:

We pay 30% and I have a driver that has been with me for a few years at 35%. We have found that being paid on commission keeps them motivated to work. The night calls everyone does - even the bosses (my husband of course - he occasionally makes me go) if need be - percentage is still the same but are rates go up $10 from 7-9 pm 9 to 12 another $10 and so on and so forth - got to make it worth doing.
Laurie

datowman:

we pay hourly during the day from 8 - 5 and then evening weekend work at 30%

Stay Safe John
My sole purpose in life is to answer only "yes dear" while kneeling before the blonde that I serve.

Heidi:

I pay my drivers a base salary or 30% whichever is more, and if they work extra hours then they get 30% of what was brought in for the extra hours.

Jimstowing:

I pay my employees strictly 35% commission here and they seem quite happy with it. I also pay on Mondays, they NEVER miss a Monday and by the time Friday comes around they are out of money so they figure that they might as well work the weekend!!!Timothy Peck - Owner
Jim's Towing
Monroe, Michigan
WM040571 4/5
TRAA CT 1482

VegasValleyTowing:

I think 10 an hr is a good pay that is 8-6pm then 30% after 6pm.

Unknown:

$10 bucks an hour thats $500 a week minus about 30% taxes=$350. Could you live on that? Single living at home maybe. Married 1 kid, wife works takes home about the same.
Rent, daycare, food, insurance,gas, etc. I dont think so. Think I'll work at UPS, DHL, FEDEX don't have to lay under the truck or car. Nice uniforms, medical, and bennies OH yea!
The folks say thanks when I drop off nice packages, and that better than gettin a tip.

DragNTow:

I pay my drivers 1/3 of what the truck makes. The theory is the driver gets 1/3, the truck gets 1/3, and the company gets 1/3. Storage charges are exempt from drivers commissions. All drivers start out with a $200.00 Christmas bonus the first year. (CASH). It goes up $100.00 each year.(OUCH) This is my incentive to work for me and not the competition! I guarantee a $300.00 base pay for 5 days work whether the phone rings or not. Seems to work well for me! Happy Haulin........DragNTow

towincarz:

I pay 30%, commission only. With the exception of my longest employee. He gets 3% more. The guys checks run anywhere between $1200 -$1600 every 2 weeks. I've aways believed, that if you pay drivers by the hour, they won't get anything done. Mind you, we have account work, and the cars are set up for you each day. No weekends, but work until your cars are picked up.

TOWMAN27 :

30% of $18 isn't too good, especially at 3:00 am
Many guys around my area driving 90 to 100 hours to make ends meet. Isn't that illegal and dangerous to the driver and the public?

annettemcd:

If you are paying with commission, how do you compensate drivers for GOA's, cancelled calls, impounds that are never claimed, etc?

We pay hourly and if we send them on a tow, we pay them for their time, even if the job goes south on us. They might do well on 30% commission on the jobs that pay, but I do not want them deciding which jobs to take and which not to take and I do not want them to be mad at me or even question me because I send them on an impound in the middle of the night and it turned out to be a junker which will never be claimed. That is the company's problem and A.P. and I have to work it out with the Troopers or the customer. As it is, we have had drivers complain about wasted time, even though they are being paid. I guess that part of our situation is that with our distances, that we can drive 100 miles or more for a job with no income (it would be different if it was a simple job of jumping in the truck and going down the block) --you can be sure that we do everything that we can to avoid this, but it happens and it seems to happen more with off-peak hour calls. It is not the driver's fault or problem or choice or decision, it is the company's. We are also not high enough volume for this to balance out for the individual drivers.

Unknown:

I think my company pays fairly well compared to other companies in our area that lowball tows so its kinda hard to make good money when your tows are typically $5 to $15 more than the competition meaning it's hard to make this a good paying profession in our area when people keep towing cars for cheap$ but anyways we have a different system where we make $10 for an after hours call no matter what you do or what your hourly pay is for regular day hours. If I work for an hour or more I will pay myself $15 and sometimes I will use a combination of time spent on the call and the final bill total and figure 20 to 25% of the bill and how many hours worked x $16.50 for overtime for my standard hourly rate of $11 per hour and try to average the overtime and percent of final bill. For accidents and w/o's we pay $15 no matter what and if theres cleanup and additional work I'll make anywhere from $15 to $35 bucks for accidents. For a long distance after hours tow from Des Moines to Minneapolis (235 to 250m tow) I only pay myself 20% of the final bill and usually average $17 an hour for a 7.5 hour trip(not bad I think) My boss lets us pay what we think we deserve within reason and he has never not paid me what I put on my timesheet. If you have any questions about our on call pay just message me and I'll try to explain it better.

Jim Krohn Ankeny Towing whether you support war or not please support our Troops and stay safe out there! POW MIA

Unknown:

I get paid 25% on tows 30% on service calls and tows back to our shop. 50% on the overnites 11pm-7am on anything i do. I love it. I stay busy except this time of year. If i dont make more than $9.00/hour during my shift from commissions then i get the $9.00/hour.

Hodgiemomma:

everyone is talking about pay well when does the owner of the company get a pay check i think im going to work just so i can see what a pay check looks like again lololol i pay my guys 40% of there night calls and there day time is salary at 450.00 a week and every thing after 6 pm that is 40% i think i will have to evaluate the numbers now that i now everyone else is only paying 25 %

markacampbelljr:

I pay my LD drivers 38% and they run boy! let me tell you. They average between $1200-$1600 checks every week. Before paying commission FSC goes to the company. The only problems I have is on GOA with my fuel costs and loose $$$ and we sometimes have drivers complain about getting to many wholesale account calls. But in saying that it all works out. I pay my HD drivers 30% on all regular calls again after FSC and $30.00 an hour on recoveries. Now I can't give you a solid average on their pay because we have only been doing HD since I started that side of the business 1.5 years ago and we are still growing but the highest check to a driver was $4300 and lowest was $700 but off a year basis they made 46k in our first year. My MD drivers get a split commission 38% on cars 30% for MD calls. My drivers are all very happy when we are busy, but gripe in spring and fall. But business is good since I walked in the door and started doing hard selling and training we have added 4 trucks to the fleet with four full time drivers, and added 2-4 part time drivers. I understand that my payroll expense is high compared to most of the other companies in this forum, but without reliable drivers our trucks are nothing more than lawn ornaments.

Dtowingfl Wrote in December of 2009:

First thing I will admit is I am not a tow guy. I come from an automotive background and the few recent months I have spent managing a tow company have been an eye opener for me. Long hours, lots of stress and tiny little profit margins seem par for the course!

My situation is this. The co. I am working for does about 2000 calls a month, runs a fleet of 15 trucks including a medium, hvy and a landoll. They do some rotation work as well as have a small municpal contract. From what I have seen, they are not unlike alot of other towers. Problem (to me anyways) is that around 1000 of their tows a month are for AAA, with an average charge of $33 ea. We are bringing in about 125k a month in revenue and have 125k a month in expenses. Now of course all the new trucks they leased through Sterling a few years ago are miled up from all these low buck calls and are falling apart.

To me, the writing is on the wall. If they keep up at this pace the fleet will deteriorate faster than the revenue comes in and this place will self destruct. I have done the math and if we dropped AAA cold turkey we would lose about 30k a month in revenue, but would actually drop 30k to 35k a month in expenses! This from what I gather is also not unlike many towers who blindly get sucked into the motor club business and never do the math to realize its not profitable.

Problem is the owner is terrified to drop them. Try as I may I cannot get him to see the wisdom in letting go of this unprofitable, stress laden volume treadmill to focus on more profitable sources such as PPI's, commercial accounts and cash business.

Have any of you found yourself in a similar position and how can you break someones irrational and destructive dependance on motor clubs before it takes them under?

Adams Towing said:

What are you going to do if those other sorces of income slow down? They always do. Maybe have a meating with your rep and discuss a better contract. If you are a quality provider for them they will understand you have to make a profit. You might be able to cut cost on your end as well, look at the big picture you might have more than one thing that you can cut back on. It's just my opinion but you got to do whats best for you.

Dtowingfl said:

Man you hit the nail on the head.

I started towing for myself in 1996, and was contracted with all the motorclubs, and small P.D. Rotation list. I done this up till 2004, after the stress and costing me a mariage, I finally parked everything for about a year.

During this time I was so scared that if I didnt have the calls the trucks would sit and I would have to pay the payments on the trucks out of pocket, so I thought I had to have the motor clubs to make the bacon to give it away. I only had 5 trucks now heavy nor landoll to make the other ends meet, just light duty, medium duty, and 2 service trucks that is not part of the 5 mention for battery service and what have you.

Now since I have came back into the game through the divorce got to keep 3 trucks 2 paid for, and the service units, I am not as fast to contract, now I do contract with a hand full, but letting AAA go was a good thing no more stress no more reports of poor performance ect.

Only thing I can say is good luck, I had people telling me the same thing for years of what you are trying to get across and never listen I knew best. How wrong I was after I add up what I lost in this process.

wyomingtowpro said:

You cannot make profit @ 33.00 per call. Those days are long gone. All you do is spin wheels and ware out trucks and drivers. This is a hard reality I faced at one point in my business, b4 I closed it. And fyi...it was closed due to wifes illness not financial issues.

Now heres my suggestion. You must do a cost audit. In order to put thing in prospective you have to know basically what it cost to operate the truck (s). Luckily for me my wife is a accountant and auditor by trade. Once you have done a cost audit, you must cut your cost and eliminate unnecessary spending. Tighten the belt. You cannot operate a business without knowing the numbers and putting all you finances in prospective. Being able to sustain in business will be easier after you have done a cost audit.

As far as AAA...You must contact them and explain your situation. Im sure there are other comapnies in your area that are on a waiting list to go tow at the same if not a cheaper rate. You can call them b4 you do a cost audit and possibly get a small increase that will give you some short term relief. But you have a better bargaining tool if you know where you need to be b4 you call them. Be prepaired for them to turn you down. Very few customers are loyal and compassionate to the needs of service providers. They have too many idiots that will work cheaper. You have to find out what it cost to operate, and set your rate based on that cost, and stick to it in order to make a profit!!!!!!!

I found that it is truly ok, to fire a customer if they cannot or will not give you an increase based on you true cost of doing business. You will find that once you shed yourslef of the unnecessary expenses, and you get rid of the cheap rate customers you can keep you head above water. This may cause you to downsize your fleet. You need to replace the cheap customers with new customers. You will need to start a mass marketing campane in your service area. Both national accounts and local customers. Its a lot of work to turn a business around but with the support of the owner you can build a better model of the same company.

If you need advise on cost audits and stragities give me a call. 6154895749. Jeff C. / Buffalo, Wyoming

tlwtowing said:

I think the total is a bit higher than 33.00, my brother gets more than that for a hook up with AAA. He has a repair shop also. I would say with enroute and loaded miles it has to be over 40. figure 40 dollars you have one hour of labor at 10.00 and 2 gals of fuel at 6.00 that leaves 24.00. 1 truck runs 10 calls that leaves 240.00 after fuel and wages. take out 15.00 for workmans comp and 11.00 for insurance you get 216.00 profit per truck. 216 times 30 = 6480.00 per truck minus 480.00 for maintenance equals 6000 dollars profit per truck per month. Provided you dont run out and buy all new equipment and watch you overhead I showed you your are making money. If you cant make it with each truck bringing in 6000 a month your living beyond your means. Insurance is based on what I pay for garage keepers 1,000,000 liability and 50,000 on hook at 330.00 a month. so if you run 600 calls a month the profit would be 12,000 dollars thats 2 trucks 10 calls a day heck even take out another 2,000 for rent and a part timer your still clearing 10,000 a month.

Dtowingfl I think your math is off 2000 calls times 40 is 80,000. But lets say the do bring in 125,000 a month, I dont care if all the equipment is new the most in payments should be is 40,000. say 6,000 for insurance and 8,000 for fuel is 54,000. wages for 15 guys say average 500 a week. 30,000 thats 84,000. set aside 7500.00 for maintenance and 2500.00 for workmans comp now your up to 94,000. say 2,000 for rent and 3,000 for utilities your at 99,000. The owner is clearing 26,000 a month.

maricle1 said:

Kenny Miracle
''Miracles Do Happen Here''

 

wyomingtowpro said:

Nothing personal tlw towing, But....your math is wayyyyyyy off. He stated 2000 call a month and 1000 AAA were an "average of 33.00 per" And in your comparison math you need to remember that there are a lot of other expenses besides the obvious. A cost audit will require not only for you to look at quick books or your accounting programs accounts payable, but to look at the check book and see where you wrote checks that are not accounted for, and what about all those " Cash calls"?? All the expenses that you paid and didnt keep the receipt. A true cost audit will take you so deep in your personal and business finances that you will be amazed how you can save money once you look at EVERY DOLLAR you spent in physical 2009 vs EVERY DOLLAR you made in physical 2009. That Why you need to wait until after the year end. You need to do all 3..End of month books, End of quarter books, and the close out the year, get your taxes prepped and know what you tax liabilities are.

The reason most businesses struggle is because they cant break the cycle of wasted spending ....and they don't look out side the box. My 1st cost audit was in my 3rd yr in business. I did 10 more after that. Every February after we closed all previous yrs books we re-ran the numbers. It made me a lean profitable business. In this economy you HAVE TOO budget not only personal finances but business finances as well, and stick to that budget not varying off course and spending money on eye candy items and wants ..Only spend on your needs and stop buying crap you don't need or can live without.

 

tlw towing said:

Kenny your thinking about what you pay for heavy haul, say even 100,000 on hook only adds 200 dollars a year to the insurance. and your not going to be hauling doubles for AAA. And how many jobs do you know of these days that start at 10 dollars an hour? If you re read what I posted I covered everything from fuel to maintenance to workmans comp to insurance. I am using real world numbers based on my state of ohio. And I was just using this as an example. I looked at my policy and I do have 100,000 on hook and I pay 330.00 a month for 9 months. that's all. So go ahead and add 2 or 3 dollars an hour to my example and you would still be making money. And I don't need a computer program telling me I am making money when I can figure that up myself. If you study what I laid out you are making money. does not take rocket science to figure that out. And I also used 40.00 a call net. 33.00 is unrealistic that is probally the hook up fee not counting enroute or loaded. And what tax liabilities? If you show the IRS every dollar you bring in you wont be in business long. Back to you kenny if you cant make it making even 5,000 clear per truck I don't know what to tell ya your living to large buddy.

 

In Memory of Charlie Amann who said:

i run hard and i make money all motor clubs started 5yrs ago with 3 trucks now we have 15 trucks all motor clubs i reinvested the money in the business so i make money doin it too

 

wyomingotwpro said:

There are ways that you can deduct , depreciate , and write off...on your taxes. I never made any mention to the above quote , and never will. Any atempts to Cook da Books, is a risk you may choice to take, but not me, my freedom is not going to be taken away because of my need for greed and illegal business practice. Yes ur CPA may have some creative adjustments with in the letter of the law but im not gonna push that envelope.

Anyway..... I do not care who you are...Top Level Patron and Sponser on Tow 411, newby or old school tower, greenhorn business owner or United Freeking Road Towing Nationwide anybody ..YOU AINT MAKING PROFIT @ 33.00 OR @ 40.00 DOLLARS A CAR. You might make crap loads of money when u hide it from the irs and screw uncle sam his part''...You have lost ur mind to go out and buy 15, 20, 40 , 60 trucks at todays intrest rates on installment payment or one of those sucker i c u coming leases and haul for that cut throat rate.....

the comments in this post are mine and only mine which under the 1st amendment of our constitution are afford me be out spoken on this post...

 

tlw towing said:

Wyomingtowpro, I showed you that you can make money at the 40 dollar average. If your too blind to see it I cant help you. Obviously Charlie is making money. And you also put the cart before the horse and assumed someone run out and bought or leased 15 trucks. I know charlie and he is exactly like I am. You buy used, pay cash, and rebuild them from the ground up. A heck of a lot cheaper than payments. Its obvious you went down this road and failed hence the bitterness toward club work. The are folks who do club work and those who dont. Its all a choice that the individual makes. My company is growing, Charlies is growing, And my brother has been running AAA for 25 years so somebody must know how to make some money. And guess what we didnt need a program to tell us how to do it.

 

Maricle1 said:

From 50k to100k cost me 358.00 a year per Truck.On my heavy I carry 250k. My total premium for 12 months is over 16,000 for 5 trucks.For this state it's a good rate as I just shopped it and no one could match it.You'veer gotten a AAA call and the member was pulling a trailer?My drivers make 20.00 per hour and 25% after 6pm.Hell the guy that mops my shop floor makes 14.00 per hour.(And worth every dime)A employee being paid 14.00 p/h with matching with holding will cost the employer around 20.00 P/h .You example does not show all cost of doing business.And it doesn't take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to figure it out.(Office phone,cc processing,lights,cell phones for drivers,computers for the office and the list goes on)I'm not saying you can't make it on Motor clubs.I'm saying you have to be paid for what you do and what your worth.I do everything above board. I do not hide money from the IRS.They have no sense of humor,So you don't play games with them or you will not be in business long.As for me ,I will not be content making 5000.00 per truck,If I should have made 15,000 per truck.I charge for what I do and what I'm worth and what my guy's are worth and I've been pretty sucessful doing so.It's about MAKING it.It'sut GROWING AND PROSPERING.You can make it working at WalMart. AS FOR LIVING TOO LARGE,I DON"T THINK SO!! I own my equipment and shop and homes outright no bank note attached and I pay my help a wage, they can raise their families off of. And I even pay my TAXES and not try to cheat the goverment.In my opinion,It's people running for pennies, when they should be charging dollars that have hurt this industry and have forced many a great company out but that's for another topic.Bottom line is if your going to give examples, Give accurate, complete examples and if you don't know ask someone that does.Someone on here will know.........Kenny

Kenny Miracle
''Miracles Do Happen Here''

 

wyomingtowpro said:

Let me say up front ..I have never, and will never as an owner or (previous owner) worked for AAA or any other motorclub. My 13 years in business was not a failure, It was a choice to close it, when my wife was on her death bed in the hospital. And the long recovery was more important that making money. I feell very comfortable in my financial status in life, and choose to werk smart and not hard for a 40.00 reward. I relocated to Wyoming and started plans for retirement. Back in the early 70's my father was the owner of a large company in Nashville, rates were 17.50 local, in mid late 70's i can remember 22.50 and 25.00 per car. Rates went up over the years until in the late 80's AAA started this crap of dangling volume werk for cut throat rates. He never did it either. Now I know for a fact that there is a company in Nashville who is one of those AAA premium service vendors. He has 9 rollback, 5 self loaders, 1 med 1hvy, 1tator, 4 equipment haulers. I have heard he say, and i quote..." Need more werk," hard to make payroll, ect..This is because he chooses to work AAA at 23.oo starting rate. Brother those rate went out the window along with Disco, and urban cowboy fades.

I work as an employee in a place where everyone has AAA. We see about 250 to 300,000 visitors a year by car come thru here going to Yellowstone, and about 25,000 to 30,000 RV's a year. My employeer DOES DO ALL Motorclubs. BUT>>>>>>>>the start rate in 50.00 plus mileage. There are no sweetheart deals here, and even RV Plus rates @ 150.00 per hour to start. One motor club / dispatch forwarder CCM 55.00 plus 3.50 a mile one way.

Im a heavy duty operator, I do very little light duty towing , but in a bind ill jump in a truck and gogogo. The rates are "fair" Ive gone 3o miles out on a gas call it pays about (to the company) 137.50. I have told thge owner , if its a 40 dollar call and I'm on 30% dont wake me up at 2am for 12.00. That's some crap.....

I have alway been a believer that the business I own is just that , Its mine. I refuse to let ANY potential client or customer tell me what they are gonna pay me to do a job. If they need my service to do a job, they will be given a rate. If they don't like it, shove it. go find that guy that runs junk equipment, has untrained and non-certified drivers come work for you. Get paid for the job based on fairness not based on whatthey are willing to give you. They don't and never will have your best intrest at heart!!!

Everyone has the right to run their business as they see fit . If you are making money good for you. If you choice to buy junk equipment, rebuild junk equipment and do cut rate towing and be under insured or rite at the legal limit, good for you. You have to account for your time u spend in that business, and I place a great value on my time. You have spent a great deal of time werking on that junk equipment to make it road worthy , to do towing for A 40.00 rate that was obsolete in the early 90's. good for you. Best of luck in your business as you spend time turning wrenches, rebuilding junk equipment for that a 40.00 tow....

 

Unknown Member said:

My head hurts from all this reading,and we are at the same place in this discussion that we were in the beginning! Can't we all just get along?

 

wyomingtowpro said:

I can get along with any one, I'm not a Hater at all, but i also reserve my rite to speak my mind as does the other members on this post. I do feel that is not gonna change anything. In every industry you will always have some one who chooses to do a job cheaper. That's a trend nationwide. Why some people will work for almost nothing is beyond me but if it works for you by all means be that guy who cuts the rates to get he job or work for those customers who dictate how you run ur business by demanding or strong arming you to accept thier rates or not get the job. When you surcome to thier demand you might as well hand the the keys to everything you own, because they now run your business when you allow them to set your rates

.I just refuse to accept chump change for a job that should pay a fair market rate....

 

Randall L Dawson said:

Every time a tower finds out that doing motor club work is at best a break even venture and asks how to drop them , the same couple of " m/c cheer leaders " post how they make money doing m/c calls , which was NOT the question the gentleman asked. I'd prefer not to have to pay taxes either but , I don't want Bernie Madeoff as my roommate.

Please work safe, We've lost to many already this year. Randy.

 

Maricle1 said:

Yes Sir,I wonder if they are not the motor club reps sometimes or just have really bought into the BS that some clubs feed them.I actually do make some off of M/C calls though.Only because I refuse their rates and they agree to mine.I still face the same issues as everyone else that does club work.The ever present short pays!!!!!! Kenny

Kenny Miracle
''Miracles Do Happen Here''

 

 

jal70 said:

All,

A few items which are being left out of this post, which offer a slightly different viewpoint..... First, I would respectfully disagree with the original author of this topic in that mc business is a "habit". I am wondering if he is aware of the sheer volume of work globally that the mc industry represents?? Between CCMC, Signature, Geico, NSD, RAMC, Asurion and various others, estimated annual dispatch volume is in excess of 7.5 million episodes and this does not take into consideration AAA... It would be very difficult to imagine that this level of business is a habit or would simply evaporate, when you truly understand the value these products delivery to the clients. Additionally, much has been made about low rates as compared to retail, but again here the " entire" picture is not being painted for the community, so let me help. Most of the rates being discussed here are NOT the avg total invoice amount being paid for the service rendered, obviously we are all aware that typically club contracts offer a rate PLUS both en-route and loaded miles. When these amounts are paid for services over time, you will realize that the avg revenue per service is considerably higher than simply pointing out the base rate. Of course the mc industry is aware that the rates are not retail, however with the aformentioned dispatch episodes, we would be considered a corporate account in any industry, warranting some preferred rate be negociated between the parties. This is common practice in almost every business within automotive, towing and just about any B2B I can think of at the moment. Let us also not forget the opportunity that additional exposure to mc clients bring your businesses, for example to name a few: Driving repair shop refferals to your shop or perhaps a shop you may have a business arrangement with, opportunity to market your retail services to these customers, mobile battery sales, tire sales (commerical lines) , collision repair refferals, specialty vehicle towing (heavy , cycles), etc...

In the end, this is a business decision which must be made by knowing all the facts about your own operation and what type of accounts mc's can be. But let's please not paint all mc's with the same brush... As with towing operations, not all mc's are created equally....

Joseph

 

tlw towing said:

Joe, Its like this, Most dont realize between motor clubs and insurance control 60% or better of the tow volume. And Allstate is giving away memberships now that will bump the number up some. Its the evolution of the industry. Ever changing. Some of these guys will let evolution pass them by.

 

fairway said:

Yes, m/c's should be warranted a preffered rate, I would say it should be about 70 to 75% of the retail rate, not 30 to 40% like it is. What is a common % off of retail for wholesale customers? 25% or 65%? Also, the percentage off of retail should be based on the actual volume received, not promised. If you are feeding me one call a day, you should get less of a discount than a customer feeding me 15 calls a day. Also don't forget that along with the generous discounts and preferred rates, you are also not paying at the time of service.

 

Maricle1 said:

I agree motor clubs control a percentage of tow volume However,The real problem is many towers are naive and think they are making money at the low rates clubs pay.If all towers stood their ground and demanded a decent pay scale,The clubs would have no choice or they would go out as they would have no contractors doing their calls.The sad fact is they contract with other company's and pay their contractor less then half of what they collect in many cases.I contract with quite a few clubs but,only ones I can make a fair profit on.There is no sense in doing a call and only making 3-4 dollars profit,It's nuts!!!! I think we all understand clubs have to make a profit.Now they need to realize, we require profit to.Personally I dislike motor clubs,I feel like they are a cancer sucking the life out of the industry.Many calls that use to pay a decent rate like wrecks are now handled by motor clubs and a low ball rate.Dealership tows same thing.It just blows my mind at the number of towers, who just pucker up to these clubs and agree to do calls for less then half of retail on a promise of great volume.It just seems some of you THINK your making money, when in fact Clubs are taking MONEY right out of your pockets By involving themselves with accidents,Transports from storage yards,and such.They are tapping into the only real profit source we as towers have and putting OUR PROFIT IN THEIR POCKETS.Bottom line is they don't know your goals,overhead,or your business plan They shouldn't be dictating your rates.
Joe ,Since you do seem to have answers for everything.What is the AVERAGE profit clubs make per call ? I really don't think you'd let the clubs little secrets out.The clubs seem to have a pretty good idea how much profit we make so why is it a kept secret what they make?I'm pretty sure though,It's possible to pull up a financial for them that should show payouts and profits.

Kenny Miracle
''Miracles Do Happen Here''

 

Original Topic Creator Dtowingfl said:

Whoah, looks like this thread got a bit of discussion going! Thanks to everyone for their input and thoughts. For any who took offense, I wasnt intending to bash any M/C's, its just that as a stand alone tower with no repair facility or body shop, I have seen no way for us to make money running these $30 and under calls.

More importantly, I was stunned by the degree of denial that the owner was in and after investigating it a bit, it seems that many towers have the same mindset and have grown dependant on the M/C cashflow without understanding how detrimental it is to the health of their company. Finally it seems after making it clear that M/C's generate 30% of his revenue but encompass 60% of his expenses, he has finally stopped drinking the kool-aid and agreed to shed some overhead.

I'll resurrect this thread in 3 months or so and post the results from dropping over half our M/C business actually accomplishes. Wish me luck!

 

Falcon1  said:

I worked for a towing company that had over 75 units on the road, after a year of doing no M/C calls we noticed that we did less calls BUT that we were available for the retail customer! Calls were down, income did'nt change and profits were up!

 

DodgeTowGuy134  said:

Ok, I will chime in foe a brief moment, Wile I do TOTALLY agree with those who said that you need to know what your operating costs are, I agree with the Road America rep, that NOT all motor clubs are equal, as one club for one tower may be the best ever, they may be the worse for another tower that is many states away in a different region.

That said, I think that a business owner/accountant/office manager, SHOULD know the cost of doing business and know that is costs $$$ per call to do a call and even go as far as knowing that you need to make $$$ per mile/per minute, etc and then when calls come in base yates on your cost plus your profit margin to determine what you charge per call.

Now, with motor clubs, I agree that since they do send some volume and we can market other services to their custoomers, that they get a discount. A also agree with what was said that you have to also include not only the base rate of a call, but also the enroute/loaded mileages, cause if you get a very high enroute and/or loaded mileage rate, then it can offset a little lower on-scene rate, BUT...

I do agree with the other towers that the motor clubs should NOT strong arm us towers into things like including taxes in the base rate of a call, cause in our area we charge tax based on the county rate ans we service 5 counties, all with different rates and additionally, it is ILLEGAL for the tax to be included in the base rates of a call and tax MUST be calculated seperate and shown as such as according to state law. The exception is items such as gasoline and diesel fuel..

Additionally, I agree that motor clubs should get a discount, but NOT a 75% discount, as that is just too much.. They should get a 25% discount base and then if the volume over that month is really high, then they can get a higher discount for those calls due to increased volume sent to the tower. This was already stated by "fairway"..

Another thing about motor clubs, is that I TOTALLY DISAGREE with them putting in their contracts and "requiring" a tower to accept a certain percentage of calls from them and if they cant accept a call that it counts against a tower... Come On!!! Some days we the towers are running our rears off cause we are soo busy, and work is sometimes more than we can do or days without a call, so if we cant run a call for whatever reason, then sorry, but it should NOT count against a tower in a negative way and that in turn affects the overall rating of the tower and then the motor club sends lett business to the tower... cause during the blizzard we had here this winter, we had to take certain calls over others due to many reasons, from priority due to safety/location of the vehicle to be serviced, to it being a car stuck in the driveway of the custoomer isnt a high priority compared to a car that has a yound single mother with a newborn baby that slid off into the ditch...

I think that motor club reps SHOULD be polite and understanding and actually, really LISTEN to towers and not just blow them off, now some motor clubs reps do, but others dont, as I have my #1 motor club and their rep works with us, but another motor club we just dropped cause their rep was an overall "asshole" and he wouldnt listen to us and would ACTUALLY hang up on us, not return phone calls or emails, so we dropped them!...

So, this is my lil ramble on the subject to start my day off, now back to morning office stuff before the day gets rolling!

~later yall

 

tlw towing said:

I agree with you Dodgetowguy. They want you to do a certain percentage or your volume goes down. Had that happen to me also. I talked to my rep and due to me having the shop opening next week I decided to cut down some of my zips. I decided to do zips that keep me 30 minutes of my shop or about a 10 mile radius. That way acceptance will go up since I am one man and I wont be stretched to thin. On a brighter note I towed in an engine job to start on next week. Man I would have to do a lot of tows for the labor thats paying me.

 

DrHook541 posted article:

After everything he’d been through, the collision that sent Harold Hamon to hospital didn’t seem so serious to his family.

Over the last 10 years, Hamon, the 57-year-old owner of Hamon’s Towing & Recovery in Langley, had dealt with diabetes, the amputation of his right leg, kidney failure and the aftereffects of open heart surgery that left him clinically dead for just over four minutes.

A shattered hip was not a small matter, but it didn’t seem like anything the resilient Hamon couldn’t recover from.

Hamon suffered the injury when his blue Ford F350 pickup was hit by a white Chevrolet panel van around 9 a.m. Friday (March 11) on the Langley Bypass east of the 200 Street intersection.

According to police, the van was making an illegal left-hand turn onto the bypass when the collision occurred.

The force of the crash sent the Ford into a ditch, injuring Hamon and his passenger.

The first thing Hamon did was reach for his cellphone.

He was still inside the damaged truck when he called his brother.

“Ron, you better get down here,” he said. 

“A guy just cut me off. I’m cut pretty bad.”

Eyewitness Tressa Japp saw the blue Ford F350 pickup truck spin out of control and land in a ditch.

“The smoke started billowing out of the front of the [Ford] truck,” said Japp, a First Aid instructor from Boston Bar who rushed to assist the injured occupants of the pickup.

“The driver was more lucid than the passenger,” Japp told The Times.

“They both had serious head trauma.”

Both men were rushed to hospital by ambulance.

When Hamon’s sister Lorraine went to see him in hospital, she said he was in considerable pain, and fretting about the fate of the other people involved.

“I didn’t kill anybody, did I?” he asked.

In fact, the driver of the van walked away from the crash and Hamon’s passenger was treated and released.

“You don’t need to worry,” Lorraine told her brother.

It was, the family says, typical of Hamon to worry about others more than himself.

They describe him as a hard-working big-hearted person who would tow people even if they were broke, telling them to pay him when they could.

“He never left anyone high and dry,” says brother Ron, who occasionally drove for Hamon’s towing company.

Hamon, one of 11 kids, spent almost his entire life living and working in the town where he was born.

He never married, but he had many nieces and nephews, and they adored their uncle, who liked to build slick, fast cars and trucks.

His pride and joy was the 800 horsepower street-legal 1964 Ranchero with the black cherry paint job.

There was also a bright blue 1980 Chevy short-box pickup that he built with his brother Terry.

Most of all, Hamon loved his job. He liked to keep working.

He would go out in all kinds of weather, even working Christmas Day.

About 10 years ago, a dropped dolly caused a foot injury that turned into an infection and led to the amputation of his right leg.

It barely slowed him down.

He did need an assistant to help him hook up vehicles, and every now and then, his artificial leg would fall off, likely because he was losing weight.

Hamon would simply put the errant metal limb back on and carry on like nothing out of the ordinary had happened.

The failed attempt to quell the infection in his leg with antibiotics is believed responsible for the kidney failure that required dialysis treatments four times a week.

About 14 months ago, Hamon underwent open heart surgery, and his heart stopped beating for about four minutes after the operation. 

He survived and quickly returned  to work, with a doctor’s note that allowed him to drive without  a seatbelt post-surgery.

A week before the crash, Hamon was discharged from hospital where he’d been treated for pneumonia.

He was back at work half an hour later.

Hamon died Sunday morning, just hours before he was scheduled to undergo surgery on his hip.

The family said an autopsy has been ordered to determine the cause of death.

Meanwhile, the police investigation of the crash continues.

Both vehicles have been seized and will undergo mechanical inspections. 

 Langley RCMP said charges are being contemplated.

RESOURCE LINK

nrctower said:

Acestowing said:

Associated Towing said:

Thoughts and prayers to a fellow towers family

getuone2x said:

Thoughts and prayers

Larry Styba said:

Randy1 said:

Thought's and prayer's with all involved.

This is an Alberta Roll Call which ran on Tow411 in 2007:

How many of these members are still around?

583 from the Bow Valley, Montreal - QC - ca

Camtow, Camrose, AB Canada - - CA

Cooter64 ,Sundre - Alberta - AB - ca

gaqrdenfan JR here from City Haul

Andrew aka giggles88 with Double L towing Sherwood Park alberta

HeavyHook Chestermere, Alberta

Jody aka kama with Big Time Towing and Recovery in Bonnyville Alberta

Ray, L&L Southside in Cold Lake, Alberta

Red Deer

Steve aka wm93197 owner-opperator of Fairview Towing.

Fairview is between Peace River and Grande Prairie.

White Knight Towing

Robin aka wm050915 in beautiful downtown Cowley Alberta

This is an British Columbia Roll Call which ran on Tow411 in 2007:

DrHook541 - Surrey - BC - ca

Divor located in westbank

Jim aka Caribu907 from Williams Lake

Doug aka "Oldtrucks" Maple Ridge Towing

Gigarange located in Victoria

Larry Styba - Pitt Meadows BC

Vanhook located in Surrey

Abinator from Dawson Creek, BC

More Images:

Danny Cassello said:

wow, some parts look like a Holmes but yet I do not believe it is.  I would guess possibly a Stringfellow wrecker unit. 

michael212  said:

Michael Myers
253.588.1757 ext 150

 

kynick said:

Possibly No-Mar

Nick Schade

 

Original Post Creator Added:

This is the only identifying marking I could find "Tennessee USA" stamped on the inside of one of the mast pillars.


  

Main winch



Looking over the main winch at one of the boom winches.




Spanky over on stovebolt said he thought it looked to be assembled from different units, maybe an Ashton mast, Stringfellow Booms, and a Hubbard service body.

I've been looking at a lot of images, and the booms with the center boom is most like a Canfield than any I've ever seen. But I've only seen one image of a Canfield and it wasn't very detailed.  But to me it looks like a Canfield is a better fit than a Holmes.   I've not seen any Holmes with this boom configuration.

I haven't been able to see any definitive images of an Ashton or Hubbard wrecker, or a Stringfellow for that matter.

 

I wasn't able to locate any images of a No-Mar or Nomar that looks like this.  The Nomar double booms that I was able to find hooked into the very bottom of the masts. This setup is near the center of the masts. The masts of the Nomars I was able to see were also much thicker, square and heavier duty than this mast.  If you could find some pictures to compare that would be helpful.

 

shelbart said:

it looks like rube goldberg had something to do with it.

 

mm212 said:

looks like it used to be a holmes, but someone took the winches out.

 

 

These Canadian Members joined the Towing Information Network and created an Introduction in 2009.

Brutus:

enough " lurking " getting on the board now lol, med. / heavy operator from vernon bc canada .
been towing 17 years , i'm lvl 2/3 wreckmaster , hopefully 4/5 comes in spring
married 12 years with 7 yr old son who loves wreckers.
this site has been extremely helpful with " how-to's" and " don't do that's" .

Wayne

Feenstras:

Hi from Wyoming, Ontario, Canada. My names Jamie and I drive for my Dad's company, Feenstra's Towing. Here are a couple of pics I have on my computer:
Metro Towing wrecker before and after paint

 

Stapley Towing Asked:

Welcome from Campbellford ON, were the heck is Wyoming Ontario? LOL Trucks look great, keep me posted on the Metro and how it works, I like those little wreckers

 

Feenstras:

We're out by Sarnia near the Port Huron, Michigan border. Its only 4 and 3/4 hours away from you.

Freak:

Hello From The Great White North

In the business for a couple of years...new to Tow411. Checking out the posts and have learned quite a few new things...look forward to more.

Supermike:

Hello from Québec

Hi my name is Michel
I m not in the business but I love trucks and tow trucks.
I discover this site some time ago but never post...not easy in anglish for me...
very nice place to learn from every body.

What has changed since 2003?

NC has a new law that became effective 10/01/2003,
The General Assembly of North Carolina enacts:

SECTION 1. G.S. 20- 77(d) reads as rewritten:
(d) An operator of a place of business for garaging, repairing, parking or storing
vehicles for the public in which a vehicle remains unclaimed for 10 days, or the landowners upon, whose property a motor vehicle has-been abandoned for more than 30 days, shall, within five days after the expiration of that period, report the vehicle as unclaimed to the Division. Failure to make such report shall constitute a Class 3 misdemeanor. Persons who are required to make this report and who fail to do so within the time period specified may collect other charges due but may not collect storages charges for the period of time between when they were required to make this report and when the actually did send the report to the Division by certified mail.
Any vehicle which remains unclaimed after report is made to the Division may be sold by such operator or landowner in accordance with the provisions relating to the enforcement of liens and the application of proceeds of sale of Article 1 of Chapter
44A.'1 .
Before 10/01/2003 the person authorizing the tow had to file the papers with DMV

Topic created by Motiv8td in Aug of 2013:

Since you guys post up some pretty cool rides, I thought I'd throw in one of our own.

This list is compiled from an old topic on the Tow411 message board.

Any assistance in the form of replies to complete the list would be appreciated.

Topic was named:

Compiling a list of the different Holmes Wreckers made over the years.

Booms - Single or twin, boxed or skeleton, capacity, manual extension?
Winches - Single or twin, capacity
Bodyies - CA (cab to axle) available, single/tandem
Options - Side outriggers
Years Produced - Approximate duration of production
Anything else that would be of interest
 

W35 W45 400 440 460 480 500 525 550 600 650 750 850 1701 1801

 

Mechanical

110 missing details in topic

220 which was a pickup mounted unit with a boom like the 440, except that it had an electric winch on it....

250 missing details in topic

330 missing details in topic
400 Single Line
440 Single line 8 ton boom 8000 winch

440 High Power
460 Twin Line

470 Unknown Model and Details
480 Twin Line (2) 4 ton booms (2) 8000 winches

485 Standard early (20's - 30's) twin boom unit

490 50's unit twin 3 ton booms twin 6000lb winches?
500 Twin Line
515 Twin Line - "Antique"
525 Forerunner to the Holmes 600 the main difference was the mast and how it was structured. On the 525 the booms were mounted half way up the mast like on the 460 & 515.

The 525 has a boom rating of 6 tons each with a pulling capacity of 15 tons. It was designed to fit the 1-1/2 to 2 tons trucks with a 60" to 87" CA. The longer CA service bodies had a tool box ahead of the mast. The 20" drums had a max. capacity of 250" of cable.
550 Twin Line Unknown Model and Details
600 16 ton unit Twin Line Outriggers standard or optional equipment

650 Twin 10 ton booms
655
750 Twin Line Available Tandem or Single axle
850 Twin Line Tandem Axle
W35 Twin Line - "Antique"
W45 Twin Line - "Antique"

W70, 70 ton mech. twin boom

Hydraulic

475 missing details in topic

475T missing details in topic

515SP - Prototype of 525 with Hydraulic Booms

1200 Hydraulic Update of a 500ish?

1601 aka Python Single 22 ton hydraulic boom twin line twin 16k (20k?) winches
1625 As 1601 (?) but 25 ton

1701 Hydraulic Update of a 750?
1801 Hydraulic Update of a 850?

Others:

Heavy Duty Power Wrecker - like a 485 but stronger mast & PTO driven
Speed King - early 515?
Traffic King - early 525?
5th Wheel Wrecker - hydraulic jib for 5th wheel tractor unit use
Commander (1200?)
Trooper

Here's the listings from Catalog "Q" August 1955.
Model 330 3 ton single Hand or Power Operation.
Model 400 3 ton single Power
Model 460 6 ton dual Power
Model 470 8 ton dual Power
Model 525 12 ton dual Power 15ton possible pull capacity
Model 650 20 ton dual Power 2 speed PTO available
Model 850 30 ton dual Power 2 speed gearing 35ton
possible pull capacity central controls only

Here's the listings from 1971
Model 220 4 ton single Electric
Model 440 4 ton single Power
Model 480 8 ton dual Power
Model 500 10 ton dual Power (both drums have 7/16 x 200
ft. Cables)
Model 600 16 ton dual Power
Model 750 25 ton dual Power
Model 850 40 ton dual Power ground and central controls.