Re: On-Scene Protection - Who's Responsible ? ? ? ?

[rreschran]

In another post, I mentioned the recent case of a male who was accidentally backed-over by a tow truck at an accident scene. Do we towers hold full-responsibility (at the scene of a crash) to ensure everyone is clear from dangerous movement when motorists wander into the work-zone?

 

When you go into a work-shop or a sunken mechanic's pit, typically there are yellow-lines to identify hazardous areas requiring customer's to stay out. Not that towers have enough to do, what do you or your driver's do to identify an active work-zone? Anything? Something? Nothing? Is it part of your routine to set cones, flares, triangles, even add signage? How do you keep roadside motorists from wandering inside your work-zone or standing behind the tow truck? These questions are reasonable and prudent when it comes to defending your company should someone on-scene be injured or killed because tower's failed to identify their work-zone.

 

I know plenty of towers who'll say, "It takes too long to set them up", how does that response go over in a wrongful injury or death suit? Accordingly, isn't doing something better than doing nothing at all?           R.

 

 

 

[dperone]

If they are riding with me after I hook the car up I walk them to my truck and put them in cab before I back up to the car. Same if they have a ride that hasn't shown up yet, they can wait in the cab of my truck until their ride shows up. If they have another car already on scene when arrive I get the keys and info from them and tell them to leave before they get hit. The average person has no clue about the dangers of the roadside and I have witnessed them do some stupid things, like standing in the middle of a travel lane waving me down as if I couldn't see the only car sitting on the shoulder still steaming. I believe WreckMaster had the right idea when they said the safest place for them is in your cab. 

 

All of our trucks have cones and flares to warn traffic of our presence before they get to us. The way I operate is unless I'm in my wheel lift and can grab the car and move it off the road without exiting my truck the cones go out. I especially use them when I'm in a flatbed because they take a lot longer to load then my self loader and you almost always end up blocking your warning lights at some point. 

[rreschran]

Good Morning Mr. Dave ... I'm amazed that someone (you) finally admits that you use cones for loading scenarios. That's a good comment to see to show the new generation of towers that on-scene safety takes only a few extra minutes and that's especially plow the rear of one's tow truck or carrier because they can't steer clear of work zone. And you're right ... the average person has no clue.        R.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

My rule has always been to secure the customer in my cab before I even turn my p.t.o. on. For the customers that insist on standing outside or are just watching, I show them that i need them to not pass the rear tire of my truck. I also over-express the dangers of getting anywhere near or behind the back of my truck while I am loading their vehicle. I also make it a point to work the side of the truck that they are standing on so I can better watch them. ( in parking lots, driveways etc..) For customers that are broke down on the side of a busy road, I have been making it a point to instruct the customer on the phone when they call to wait in the passenger side of their vehicle for my arrival. I do this for a couple reasons. Obviously, so they are a little better protected should someone hit them while they are waiting for me. The second reason is More times than not, people have a tendency to jump up right out of their car the instant I pull up, most times without even bothering to look behind them. ( I have witnessed a few close calls ) With them hopping out of the passenger side, It gives me a few extra moments to get parked and out so I can take control of where they are and give them my typical " dangers of the roadside routine ". Like dperone, Road cones and flares are deployed upon arrival in needed situations. Walking up to greet a customer (on the curbside of course) with a arm full of road cones also helps to amplify the seriousness of where we are. I have practiced how I approach these scenarios to streamline how I do it to get the whole deal over and done with in quick time. I will always believe the best way to not get hit out there is to get in and out of there as quickly as possible 

[rreschran]

Write that up and post it in the driver's room Grumps.

 

Grumps and Dperone ... for on-highway scenarios, how much extra time do you estimate it takes you to set a line of cones before load?

 

R.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

I will do that Mr. Resch. I will try to clean it up a bit grammar wise too. Lol

I would have to say adding cones/flares adds about 1- 3 minutes depending on the situation. I have my cones mounted right behind my door so they are easilly grabbed as I get out of my rig. Most times I will simply collect them and toss them up on the deck in the chain bed by the headache rack to speed up the process of getting out of there. After we are off the highway, I repack all my gear and complete the securement of my casualty vehicle. ( Yes, I am a one-tie back chainer/strapper untill I am off the highway. Although I have never been ticketed for this practice, I am aware it is "illegal" and I will gladly accept the ticket if one is issued. At least I will be alive to answer the summons. I suppose it falls into the old saying of I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6..

[rreschran]

Good Morning Mr. Grumps. Your words of wisdom are well accepted. 

1 hour ago, GRUMPS The Towman said:

"I would have to say adding cones/flares adds about 1- 3 minutes depending on the situation." 

I'm hoping others see that it doesn't take a lot of time to set cones (or flares) as a part on on-highway routine.  

 

Note:  In many tow operator fatality investigations made by various agencies, one of the most repeated safety recommendations suggests towers identify the work zone with cones, flares, triangle, signage and emergency lighting. I know this safety topic has been widely over-stated, but many towers still fail to set-up for safety; not dismissing existing law, but it's the SMART thing to do. This topic is another simple reminder that suggest the addition of cones and other safety equipment or devices further provides advanced emergency notice to approaching motorists.       

 

I'm adding this picture to ask: What do the cones represent and are they important to the actions going on?        R.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by rreschran
Spelling

[dperone]

I'd be shocked if it took more than a minute each way to put the cones out and collect them after. I keep a stack of 4 on each side of the truck so no matter which way I'm facing I have them close at hand, plus I have enough to define a fairly long work area.

[rreschran]

Thanks Dave for your well-guided comments.

 

I'm reposting the link to the on-highway incident where Zoogie was assisted by Essex Police in England to demonstrate the importance of identifying a work-zone. The video shows NO cones, flares, or signs deployed to create non-compliance. The video speaks for itself.

 

 

[dperone]

Thank you sir. Too add one more statement, cones and flares are great but you should also take the TIM class to go along with it. You can have all the cones in the world but if you don't know where to place them they aren't doing you any good.

 

 

[rreschran]

Good point Dave. That's true for US towers and first responders, but I don't know if England has the same kind of training where tow operators and police received training together. 

 

John Coupland or Paul Anstee, is there such a thing as TIM (Traffic Incident Management) in England or Britain?     R.

[mushspeed]

Randall.....this subject is very close to my heart .....having lost a former operative  and had three others including my son injured whilst working at the roadside ...

 

There are some very good and comprehensive training  programmes that are available from the Institute  of Vehicle Recovery  offering up to 30 different programmes  from basic road safety through to advanced Rotator and incident management courses....

There is good coverage within those courses to advise the safest working practices at the side of road ....however there are no joint  TIM courses between police and  recovery operatives   that I know of ...

It is a requirement by police  that all operatives working on their behalf and contracts..... must have undergone the necessary  institute training.....additionally most of the UK breakdown clubs require their agents to have undergone the necessary training required by PAS 43  and sector 17 programmes

Most of the high profile companies in the UK  have very good training programmes in place ......provide excellent  PPE,    equip their vehicles with sufficient cones,.    provide vehicle with suitable stroboscopic lighting ....high visibility and reflectivity markings .....they work very hard to improve the  police and public  perception ....

 

There are still  many companies that provide little or no training  .....providing poor quality vehicles with no reflectivity....little or no PPE.....they are the ones giving the industry a bad name ...

I have been working with a group of other industry experts to press for higher  standards and requirements within PAS43  for several years but we have had only limited success.....the main resistance is additional costs to the operator ...

We are anxious to push for legislation  for towtrucks to have  more rear facing reflectivity ....mandatory outline marking ...progressive turn signals ...message / arrow boards ....but it is a slow job dealing with govt departments....but we are going to keep pushing ....

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by mushspeed
Spelling mistakes

[mushspeed]

12 hours ago, mushspeed said:

Randall.....this subject is very close to my heart .....having lost a former operative  and had three others including my son injured whilst working at the roadside ...

 

There are some very good and comprehensive training  programmes that are available from the Institute  of Vehicle Recovery  offering up to 30 different programmes  from basic road safety through to advanced Rotator and incident management courses....

There is good coverage within those courses to advise the safest working practices at the side of road ....however there are no joint  TIM courses between police and  recovery operatives   that I know of ...

It is a requirement by police  that all operatives working on their behalf and contracts..... must have undergone the necessary  institute training.....additionally most of the UK breakdown clubs require their agents to have undergone the necessary training required by PAS 43  and sector 17 programmes

Most of the high profile companies in the UK  have very good training programmes in place ......provide excellent  PPE,    equip their vehicles with sufficient cones,.    provide vehicle with suitable stroboscopic lighting ....high visibility and reflectivity markings .....they work very hard to improve the  police and public  perception ....

 

There are still  many companies that provide little or no training  .....providing poor quality vehicles with no reflectivity....little or no PPE.....they are the ones giving the industry a bad name ...

I have been working with a group of other industry experts to press for higher  standards and requirements within PAS43  for several years but we have had only limited success.....the main resistance is additional costs to the operator ...

We are anxious to push for legislation  for towtrucks to have  more rear facing reflectivity ....mandatory outline marking ...progressive turn signals ...message / arrow boards ....but it is a slow job dealing with govt departments....but we are going to keep pushing ....

 

 

[rreschran]

Hi John ... I agree and understand the always up-hill battle there is to try and create advancements in new laws and requirements. You and I have had some lenghty conversations about road-side safety and there seems to be the same obstacles there as in the states. All you and Paul can do is keep trying right.

 

But, the reality remains ... towers continue to be killed. To that point, I focused on your comment, "the main resistance is additional costs to the operator", to ask, what costs are greater than saving a tow operator's life; especially when the tower is risking his own life for that of a perfect stranger?  In my mind, the choice of setting cones and being fined shouldn't be privvy to overriding the cost of one's life.  I'm not saying that in a disrespectful to your industry, but to re-direct the common sense that's reasonable and prudent. And, to sit at a tow operator's funeral to see a grieving young wife ... to see the helplessness in her eyes, that tears' my heart-out. You know what I'm talking about John having lost one of your own.

 

However difficult, keep on fighting the hard battle ... your efforts are appreciated.         R.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by rreschran

[mushspeed]

Randall ...thank you for your kind comments...much appreciated  !!

 

Further to our discussion about additional costs and your very valid and emotive point about the helplessness of the deceased family .......

 

Trust me ...I really get it   !!       

 

I have attended countless industry  meetings with work providers and govt transport  officials .....and the majority in the room are completely supportive with all the safety and best practice initiatives discussed and a lot of progress has  been made  and is continuing...albeit slowly ...

Time after time..... the same old objections are made by a few individuals   using the argument      " how can we afford all these extra  costs when  we dont get paid enough for the job in the first place  "     " we dont need all this extra stuff   "      THAT makes my blood boil !!! 

At one meeting   I lost it..... and retorted ...." how bloody blinkered can you guys be ????  If our proposals save one serious injury or life  then it HAS to be worthwhile...!!

Perhaps standing up in a coroners court ....or being prosecuted by the health and safety executive...may focus your minds......  I know ...I have been there !!!  "

 

Rear facing reflectivity on tow trucks is something that can be improved  considerably.....

For the cost of a tank of diesel....good quality red or yellow adhesive reflective tape can be applied to most rear facing panels including transom panels,  cab backs, drop down marker boards  etc 

I know that the rear of towtrucks are often bristling with equipment  and on many occasions difficult  to apply ....but it can be done ...

a little bit of coverage is better than none ... on Van's it is possible to achieve  up to 90% coverage ....

 

It is legislation in Europe that all trucks and trailers  have to be fitted with  red reflective marking depicting the Whole rearward outline of the vehicle ....

A bit difficult on a mixer truck..... but they must have rear reflective marker boards fitted both sides and across the under run bar ...

Highways maintenance vehicles  are required  to have yellow and red reflective  chevrons across the rear panels ...

 

It's all about increasing awareness and noticability ...

 

 

 

 

[rreschran]

As always John, your comments help us US-folk to understand that we're not alone in our fight towards on-scene safety and recognition. Thanks.    R.