Sort of new, looking for some advice.

[ETOW]

Hey everyone! New member here, but used to visit the old 411 site. Started towing in late ‘05 and became WreckMaster and TRAA certified. I’ve been out of towing a few years now and miss it every day. The past few years I’ve attended a few tow shows and WreckMaster courses and have a current Level 4/5 certification. Anyway, I’m looking to start my own company in the coming months in an effort to do things right and really put an emphasis on customer service.

 

Anyway, I’m looking at some carriers and found a few within my budget and would like some input. First option is a newer, lower mileage 550/5500 with 19.5’ bed. Other options are slightly older 26k GVWR air-ride/brake trucks with 21-21.5’ beds, BUT they have 200k miles. Are the 550/5500 series trucks worth purchasing as a carrier? I’ve always driven 26k GVWR trucks with 21’+ beds, so the 550/5500s with 19.5’ beds and 19,500 GVWR seem really limited. I’d prefer a 26k chassis, but the higher mileage has me nervous. Since I’m starting out I really like the idea of having something with lower mileage with a warranty, but I don’t want to be kicking myself for having too small of a truck. What’s everyone’s opinions? Thanks!

Edited July 10, 2020 by ETOW

[EdsTowing]

That is a question that needs much more information for anyone to make an educated recommendation. Many individual factors on types of trucks and your target core audience would change my decision. A couple of general things to ponder....

 

1) New trucks are great and in theory less likely to fail...until they do. When your ride goes down in a single truck operation...you are literally out of the business. I have had new trucks that spent months at the dealer getting warranty repairs.  Flip the coin...and you have used trucks with mileage that can be more prone to emission failures which can be very costly as well as other things. Common issues like injectors can run $5000.... Air Brake trucks go 100,000 mile on brakes - juice brakes go 30-50,000. 

 

2) I have 550's and 26k gvw's in my fleet. What is your target audience? If you plan on doing mostly auto's then the smaller truck is fine. If you are looking towards commercial stuff the the bigger truck can pay off. Yes the 550's can tow a 1 ton dump or plow truck but typically not legally and sometimes not safely. If you plan on doing motor club work then you could use a lesser truck. At that point, look for something that you can run the balls off of for little profit and easily dump when your ready to go under... (read sarcasm)... A lot depends on your area as well? If you are in a farm community then maybe tractors & equipment may be a revenue source and a truck with larger capabilities would be beneficial. Not a big factor in the city though...

 

3) Again if looking at "club" work, don't buy a 200,000 mi truck to put 50 or 60 thousand miles a year on. It will be junk before you pay it off. Doing primarily local work will limit that and make it not such a factor. 

 

Starting off fresh, I wouldn't limit yourself too much because your real revenue cash cow may come from a now unknown source. Being versatile can make things much easier. Good luck with your decision. 

[ETOW]

Thanks for the reply Ed! You make some excellent points, and a lot are the same ones I’ve been kicking around in my head.

 

1) Your exactly right about breakdowns putting me out of business. My thinking is I can be out of service and have the repair cost covered, or I can be out of service and have a costly out of pocket repair on top of that. And I much prefer an air brake truck for the reason you mentioned. I also know dealers can be funny about what’s covered and what’s not, basically making warranties not worth the paper their written on. Ideally I would like a clean, 26k air ride/brake truck with around 100k, but they’re still a bit out of my price range yet.

 

2) Target audience varies. There’s a more metro area on one side where I could get more cars, and on the other side it’s more rural and most people are in 3/4 or 1 ton trucks. So a 550 with a 19.5’ bed could fit a crew cab 3/4 ton? What does a F-550 with a steel bed weigh? 13-14k? Trying to be mindful of the GVWR and GAWRs, and I’m thinking legally I couldn’t get more than a 1/2 ton truck on the deck. I see so many of the “if it fits it ships” crowd around here.

 

3) Not looking for club work, although I might sign up for a few clubs within a small, local service area at MY rates. If they call great, if not great. I don’t plan on running myself and my trucks in the ground while losing money the whole time. If it’s outside my service area, it’ll be credit card upfront, again at my rates. I’ve been around and have an idea of how the motor club game works. Haha The only reason I’m considering any club work is to try and become a familiar face for the people at local dealer service departments and repair shops and hopefully establish a relationship with them.

 

You also make a good point about revenue coming from an unknown source, and one I hadn’t considered. Once again, thanks for the reply Ed!

 

BTW, I’m a Miller fan, but your F-650 is one sweet truck! It has served you very well over the years, a real workhorse. Hopefully your replacement serves you just as well.

Edited July 10, 2020 by ETOW

[rreschran]

As usual, Mr. Ed sends great advice especially about tapping that unknown source. I started business in a small town and played dodgeball politics and favoritism that new tow businesses are always up against. So, while making my way around the Good Ole' Boy syndrome, I took any job I could to transport any items and products. I joined classic car clubs, visited boat dealerships, sheds, porta potties, moved furniture, toolboxes, hauled hay, palm trees, mattresses, even church pews.  But, that was back when the largest SUV-type vehicles were Dodge Vans or perhaps Volvo wagons. Of the used trucks that are out there, the larger trucks are beat. My advice? Start with the heaviest of the 550-series as a primary truck, then, at such time affordability is possible to add a second truck, go for the larger size. Note: If your looking to get into your area's highway patrol or police rotation, know what their requirements are up-front. Accordingly, if towing for LE is an ultimate goal and your first truck is a carrier, no doubt, you'll need a wrecker as your second truck. As Ed mentioned, even new trucks with minimal miles are having huge warranty issues. One company I work with is experiencing a really loud whining problem (not the truck's owner) and there is less than 7,000 miles on the truck. There's no cooperation with the dealer and now there's a huge battle with the dealer's rep. Sure, it would be great to have that smaller truck, but heavier SUV's make up a greater percentage of the Urban Mom market these days.  SInce you've been in the industry before, your educated as to what an individual truck will do, what to look for and what to stay away from. My dad used to say, "When cultivating new friends, you're bound to turn-up a few turds." The same holds true when shopping for trucks. Give yourself an adequate time-line and shop wisely.     R.

Edited July 10, 2020 by rreschran
Spelling

[GRUMPS The Towman]

If I may put my 2 cents in.. lol. First off welcome to the forums. Both Ed and Mr. Resch bring up many good points. Both are smart and experienced men in this industry and I personnally consider them both true leaders in the trade. I run a what I like to call a 1-1/2 man show with my partner with me being the primary mover and shaker. I run a 17 Ram 5500 4x4 with a jerr dan deck and my partner has a 12 ram 3500 4x4 with a chevron self loader. For obvious reasons we are limited to light duty towing as of now and thats fine by me. My 5500 fully equipped with me in it weighs in at 13,400. And when i say fully equipped I mean I use my roll back for ppi, rollovers, recoveries, rigging, roadside service you name it. I have had 3/4 ton trucks on my truck and depending on the type it puts me just at 19,500 or just over a bit 21,000. I am one of those guys that if my truck goes down, then im out of business till its fixed. Knowing this I have a rigourous maintenance routine and keep all my gear in top condition. I may have been lucky I suppose but i would like to think that because of that and the fact that I dont chase low paying work all over the world or put my gear in perilous predicaments that in the 3+ years I have been running my truck, It has been out of service for no more than 2 days and that was for waiting on a gasket from Cummins. So, what I am getting at is you can run a profitable business with one or 2 small trucks. You just have to be smart about it. know your rigs limitations, Know when to say NO, Take good care of your gear, Do things right and treat your customers well and they wont mind waiting for you if your honest with them and tell them your tied up elsewhere at the given moment. I have my fair share of die hard customers who refuse to use anyone else but me just because of how I treat them and their vehicles. And I know for fact I am not the cheapest around. I am actually one of the more pricey competitors in town. Good luck to you Sir And please keep us informed on your journey of getting started.

[ETOW]

Thanks for the advice Randall. You’re right about the SUVs. I don’t see Suburbans or the extended Expeditions fitting on a 19.5’ bed either, but maybe I’m wrong. Like I said, I have no experience running a 550/5500 as a carrier, only as a wrecker, so I’m not sure how capable they are as a carrier. We always ran 21-22ft 26k carriers, but several companies are running the 550/5500 chassis. As for police rotation work, that will come later. Like you said, I’ll need a twin line wrecker and a fenced storage lot/shop at a minimum before that can happen. Ideally a 3rd backup truck as well, but not required. These newer trucks are virtually impossible to fix yourself, and good luck finding an simple older truck that’s not completely beat to death. Any suggestions on years and models to stay away from? I know Maxxforce is a no go. I’ve always had good luck with Cummins, but am not familiar with the new Powerstrokes. Seems some years are ok while other had some issues.

 

Thanks again for the advice, as well as all you do for the industry.

[ETOW]

13 minutes ago, GRUMPS The Towman said:

If I may put my 2 cents in.. lol. First off welcome to the forums. Both Ed and Mr. Resch bring up many good points. Both are smart and experienced men in this industry and I personnally consider them both true leaders in the trade. I run a what I like to call a 1-1/2 man show with my partner with me being the primary mover and shaker. I run a 17 Ram 5500 4x4 with a jerr dan deck and my partner has a 12 ram 3500 4x4 with a chevron self loader. For obvious reasons we are limited to light duty towing as of now and thats fine by me. My 5500 fully equipped with me in it weighs in at 13,400. And when i say fully equipped I mean I use my roll back for ppi, rollovers, recoveries, rigging, roadside service you name it. I have had 3/4 ton trucks on my truck and depending on the type it puts me just at 19,500 or just over a bit 21,000. I am one of those guys that if my truck goes down, then im out of business till its fixed. Knowing this I have a rigourous maintenance routine and keep all my gear in top condition. I may have been lucky I suppose but i would like to think that because of that and the fact that I dont chase low paying work all over the world or put my gear in perilous predicaments that in the 3+ years I have been running my truck, It has been out of service for no more than 2 days and that was for waiting on a gasket from Cummins. So, what I am getting at is you can run a profitable business with one or 2 small trucks. You just have to be smart about it. know your rigs limitations, Know when to say NO, Take good care of your gear, Do things right and treat your customers well and they wont mind waiting for you if your honest with them and tell them your tied up elsewhere at the given moment. I have my fair share of die hard customers who refuse to use anyone else but me just because of how I treat them and their vehicles. And I know for fact I am not the cheapest around. I am actually one of the more pricey competitors in town. Good luck to you Sir And please keep us informed on your journey of getting started.

Thanks for the advice Grumps. What you’re doing sounds a lot like what I’m aiming for. I don’t want to be the cheapest company, I want to truly exceed customer’s expectations. I want to compete on service, not price. I would much rather run 2 calls for $75 than 4 calls for $40, because I understand that even though the gross revenue is less, the net revenue is greater. My previous boss was a stickler for maintenance and cleanliness and he instilled that in me. When I first started, day 2 of my employment I got my ass chewed because the wire rope wasn’t a perfect spool. I had a car that was at an angle and it caused the wire rope to spool heavily to one side. After that lashing, I would arrive on an accident scene and see guys from other companies yanking and fighting their wire rope because it was a kinked, frayed bird nest and then I understood why my boss got on to me, and I made sure to keep my winches perfectly spooled from then on. I’ve seen how poorly maintained equipment is not only inefficient and unsafe, but it also makes you look incompetent when on scene. There’s enough to worry about on the side of the road, no need to add more problems by not maintaining your equipment.

 

 I can only hope to get customers who refuse to use anyone else. That’s truly a testament to how well you run your business and the great job you do. How has your Ram treated you? 

[rreschran]

Hi Mr. E ... you're welcome for the comments. Your smart to come looking for advice versus jumping into some rolling toilet that will ultimately cost you an arm and a leg. There are plenty of towers who will put and Expedition a'top a 550 and hope something doesn't go wrong or the whole thing doesn't just tip over. Grumps said it all when it comes to your work and working your equipment ..."Know when to say NO." That's where the heavier chassis will better serve you. You'll have to make that decision based on the demographics of the area you work and the business niche you'll be serving. As a life-long Ford guy, I've had problems with Fords (headgaskets, injectors, and injector pumps). Non-air brakes wear quickly when driviers have that heavy foot. Although I've not owned a new generation Dodge 55, I personally like Cummin's for their power and longevity. My rule of thumb for buying used is nothing over 3-years old and 50,000 or less on the OD. When you look at a perspective truck, climb under it an see if there's evidence of being powerwashed ... not just two days ago, but showing the cake, crap and crud that accumulates after years of work because their owners don't give a care. I open doors to see if the door jams have been wiped clean. If you're a non-smoker, look in the ashtry. That's a first-hand clue if a truck has been loved verus hammered. Look at the bed lock and frame rails for signs of maintenence (grease) and especially the deck's tilt pin and the pivot bushing on the wheel-lift. If the truck's owner doesn't have a stack of detailed and recently dated maintenance records, or, if he won't let you bring one, or take it to your mechanic, walk away. If there's one thing that I've learned after these years is, "Buyer Beware". And, thanks for mentioning that, that "Ass Chewing", that you took was a lesson learned. Drivers don't understand that message until they become owners only to experience that first hand. Fact: No one will take care of your equipment like you because it's your dollars and hard-earned sweat.     R.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

It sounds like you already have a good professional outlook and that is key in my opinion. It is funny how a good ol' butt chewing can stick in your head sometimes. LoL. You seem to be one who looks around at whats going on around you and using what you see to improve your methods and ways. That is another key strategy for a "one man band". One of my biggest motto's is I would rather leave my truck parked in the driveway and wash it then chase calls all through town for $40. I leave that work for the clowns who want to think they are making money just because their truck is rolling. and this town has its fair share of them. The numbers have to be right. A guy can go send out one of his inexperienced drivers and do 5-6 calls running all over at $40 each, beat 175-200 miles onto his rig and cook up a tank of fuel, pay his driver for the day plus whatever else got tore up through the course of his day While I will go out 2 or 3 times for $75 each, put 50-75 on my rig and use 1/2 tank of fuel and still be home for dinner with the family. Who made out better? 

Too many people get into this business thinking they will get rich quick only to realize that you actually have to work and do it right. Many many people start with the best intentions only to find they cant make enough money to cover all their expenses doing things right at the rates they charge so corners start to get cut, trucks get abused and grossly overloaded because they take on any and all work offered, service declines and things go from bad to worse. Next thing they know, their equipment is junk, truck payments are overdue, their employees are gone, the bank account is empty and they cant figure out why. What I am getting at is when you get started, sit down and figure out what your expenses are and always plan high. Come up with a good rate scale that will pay the bills AND put a few $$ in your pocket. Remember, you are a FOR PROFIT business. the whole point is to make yourself some money. And most of all STICK TO YOUR GUNS on your quotes. You will get those people who say "well Cletus's towing said he can do it for $$". Explain to your potential customer while you cant do the job at Cletus's rate,  you can provide professional service with modern, clean updated equipment. Speak professionally to them. Yes Sir, No Sir etc... believe me, it goes a loooong way.  Most times, you will get a call back from them wanting the service. Keep in mind, The general public views us towers as greasy, Knuckle-dragging Idiots mostly. That stigma that is upheld by unprofessional fly-by-night towers with crappy rigs and gear and a crappy adittude to go with it. I pride myself on being on the opposite side of that stigma. In my opinion, being able to talk to people in a professional matter is a big thing. At least it works for me. I also know I am not going to become a millionaire doing this. I make a decent living and thats good enough by me.

 

As far as the Ram's I am very happy with them both. My 17 5500 just broke 96,000 miles yesterday and it had 230 miles on it when I first put it into service. I have had 3 mechanical failures with it although none of them have left me stranded. she always was able to limp home. 2 of those failures were "self inflicted". One was a trans cooler line that was improperly installed by the upfitter who installed the tow unit and it rubbed on the front driveshaft. The 2nd was a screw was accidentlly put through the wiring harness in the drivers front wheel well when my partner installed a set of oversized mud flaps for me. And the 3rd was a blown out exhaust manifold gasket at the head causing a massive whistling sound when the exhaust brake was used.

My partners 12 3500 we bought new as a cab/chassis and I installed the chevron unit that we had from an older chevy we got when we bought the business from our former boss. That truck just surpassed 220,000 miles. Although my partner does perform some maintenance on his truck, since it has been paid off, he certainly doesnt do it to the level that I do and is more of a "wait till it breaks" kinda guy. He runs the truck hard and uses it for everything including helping around his fathers farm moving this n that, loading things etc.. She has held up real good to his abuse. 

[ETOW]

32 minutes ago, rreschran said:

Hi Mr. E ... you're welcome for the comments. Your smart to come looking for advice versus jumping into some rolling toilet that will ultimately cost you an arm and a leg. There are plenty of towers who will put and Expedition a'top a 550 and hope something doesn't go wrong or the whole thing doesn't just tip over. Grumps said it all when it comes to your work and working your equipment ..."Know when to say NO." That's where the heavier chassis will better serve you. You'll have to make that decision based on the demographics of the area you work and the business niche you'll be serving. As a life-long Ford guy, I've had problems with Fords (headgaskets, injectors, and injector pumps). Non-air brakes wear quickly when driviers have that heavy foot. Although I've not owned a new generation Dodge 55, I personally like Cummin's for their power and longevity. My rule of thumb for buying used is nothing over 3-years old and 50,000 or less on the OD. When you look at a perspective truck, climb under it an see if there's evidence of being powerwashed ... not just two days ago, but showing the cake, crap and crud that accumulates after years of work because their owners don't give a care. I open doors to see if the door jams have been wiped clean. If you're a non-smoker, look in the ashtry. That's a first-hand clue if a truck has been loved verus hammered. Look at the bed lock and frame rails for signs of maintenence (grease) and especially the deck's tilt pin and the pivot bushing on the wheel-lift. If the truck's owner doesn't have a stack of detailed and recently dated maintenance records, or, if he won't let you bring one, or take it to your mechanic, walk away. If there's one thing that I've learned after these years is, "Buyer Beware". And, thanks for mentioning that, that "Ass Chewing", that you took was a lesson learned. Drivers don't understand that message until they become owners only to experience that first hand. Fact: No one will take care of your equipment like you because it's your dollars and hard-earned sweat.     R.

One of the trucks I was looking at was a ‘19 F-550 with 50k miles. 19.5’ Century, so it’s good to get some feedback on the Powerstrokes. The others were Freightliners with Cummins, look to be clean trucks, but have 200k miles on them. One of the things I look at is the bed sides and rails. If they’re beat up, that’s a sign the operator was just dragging chains over them as opposed to actually picking the chains up and placing them in the toolbox. Which likely means it was driven by someone who didn’t care about it. Obviously the top of the bed will get scratched due to the nature of the business, but I don’t think bed sides, tail light housings, headboards and toolbox doors should be taking much of a beating. lol At least that’s not how I operate anyway(thanks to my old boss).

[ETOW]

1 hour ago, GRUMPS The Towman said:

It sounds like you already have a good professional outlook and that is key in my opinion. It is funny how a good ol' butt chewing can stick in your head sometimes. LoL. You seem to be one who looks around at whats going on around you and using what you see to improve your methods and ways. That is another key strategy for a "one man band". One of my biggest motto's is I would rather leave my truck parked in the driveway and wash it then chase calls all through town for $40. I leave that work for the clowns who want to think they are making money just because their truck is rolling. and this town has its fair share of them. The numbers have to be right. A guy can go send out one of his inexperienced drivers and do 5-6 calls running all over at $40 each, beat 175-200 miles onto his rig and cook up a tank of fuel, pay his driver for the day plus whatever else got tore up through the course of his day While I will go out 2 or 3 times for $75 each, put 50-75 on my rig and use 1/2 tank of fuel and still be home for dinner with the family. Who made out better? 

Too many people get into this business thinking they will get rich quick only to realize that you actually have to work and do it right. Many many people start with the best intentions only to find they cant make enough money to cover all their expenses doing things right at the rates they charge so corners start to get cut, trucks get abused and grossly overloaded because they take on any and all work offered, service declines and things go from bad to worse. Next thing they know, their equipment is junk, truck payments are overdue, their employees are gone, the bank account is empty and they cant figure out why. What I am getting at is when you get started, sit down and figure out what your expenses are and always plan high. Come up with a good rate scale that will pay the bills AND put a few $$ in your pocket. Remember, you are a FOR PROFIT business. the whole point is to make yourself some money. And most of all STICK TO YOUR GUNS on your quotes. You will get those people who say "well Cletus's towing said he can do it for $$". Explain to your potential customer while you cant do the job at Cletus's rate,  you can provide professional service with modern, clean updated equipment. Speak professionally to them. Yes Sir, No Sir etc... believe me, it goes a loooong way.  Most times, you will get a call back from them wanting the service. Keep in mind, The general public views us towers as greasy, Knuckle-dragging Idiots mostly. That stigma that is upheld by unprofessional fly-by-night towers with crappy rigs and gear and a crappy adittude to go with it. I pride myself on being on the opposite side of that stigma. In my opinion, being able to talk to people in a professional matter is a big thing. At least it works for me. I also know I am not going to become a millionaire doing this. I make a decent living and thats good enough by me.

 

As far as the Ram's I am very happy with them both. My 17 5500 just broke 96,000 miles yesterday and it had 230 miles on it when I first put it into service. I have had 3 mechanical failures with it although none of them have left me stranded. she always was able to limp home. 2 of those failures were "self inflicted". One was a trans cooler line that was improperly installed by the upfitter who installed the tow unit and it rubbed on the front driveshaft. The 2nd was a screw was accidentlly put through the wiring harness in the drivers front wheel well when my partner installed a set of oversized mud flaps for me. And the 3rd was a blown out exhaust manifold gasket at the head causing a massive whistling sound when the exhaust brake was used.

My partners 12 3500 we bought new as a cab/chassis and I installed the chevron unit that we had from an older chevy we got when we bought the business from our former boss. That truck just surpassed 220,000 miles. Although my partner does perform some maintenance on his truck, since it has been paid off, he certainly doesnt do it to the level that I do and is more of a "wait till it breaks" kinda guy. He runs the truck hard and uses it for everything including helping around his fathers farm moving this n that, loading things etc.. She has held up real good to his abuse. 

I would say your assessment of me seems pretty accurate. Haha I prefer to learn as many lessons as I can from someone else’s mistakes when possible. I’ve found it to be cheaper and less painful that way. 😂

 

Like you, I’m aiming to do the exact opposite of Cletus. I’m also aware how hard starting from scratch is going to be. It’s a massive uphill battle. I have pages of notes where I’ve run through costs and rate calculations. I’m actually working on a formula that involves mileage, time, and fuel prices to determine rates. Basically you plug in shop to shop miles, shop to shop time, and local fuel prices to get a rate. It still needs some fine tuning though. The reason behind this is I can drive 65 miles in an hour on the interstate, but in the city or twisty mountain roads, I can only drive maybe 25 miles in an hour. I feel this method would ensure profitability in both scenarios and hopefully put an end to the old “charge by the mile or charge by the hour debate”, because it’s a blend of both. Still needs some tweaking, and you need to add loading/unloading time in your calculations, but I’m getting there.

 

My goal for now is to be a one man show that provides the best service on the area. The struggle, and one I’m sure everyone faces, is going to be relaying to potential customers why I’m better than Cletus and worth the extra $$. They don’t even know what a J-hook is, let alone why it’s not the best option for their $40k car.

Edited July 10, 2020 by ETOW

[GRUMPS The Towman]

Doing a "dry" startup business is defenitly going to be a tough battle. That is one bridge I didnt have to cross as we bought an longtime existing business. It was run into the ground for sure when we took over but it was there and people knew the name. ( We kept the name and colors mainly because it is the oldest towing business in the county ) But maybe that is something you can use to your advantage where you are. If all the local companies around you are run poorly and have bad reputations then being a new guy on the block might work in your favor. Get out there to the repair and body shops and talk with them about doing account work for them. ( obviously, the shops that dont do their own towing ) That is the bread and butter of my business here. I work with approximatley 60% of the repair and body shops local to me regularly with at least 35% of them using me exclusivley for all their towing needs. One shop I work with did a promotion last year offering his customers free towing within 10 miles of their shop as long as they performed the repairs needed. I gave the shop a 15% discount on all his local tows. I am sure he absorbed the costs of towing into his customers final bills. but long story short, we both made out very well. The best part is I ended up with a couple of those die hard customers I mentioned in my earlier post just from that promotion. These are Just some Ideas for you to think through. I dont know your demographics so maybe these ideas arent even a possibility for you