Combined Training???

[Tow411]

Topic Originally Created by Littletow on Tow411 in July of 2011:

 

Does anyone have an established cross training with fire,police and towers out there? Let me add, that is NOT manufacturer of any product based? It can be an association or individual. Thanks!

 

Wm99480 said:

We don't at this time but that could be 1 of your first projects here at your new job at ABC Towing! 

 

nullstowing said:

Yes we cross train on a regular basis. At least one "major staged" training event a year between the different departments and our company.

 

Fastfreddie said:

In Virginia at least in the Northern part, The firefighters are certified in a class called "Heavy Tactual Rescue". this is a advanced level class that has several other classes that they must attend before they can even  register to take this class.  The state Dept. of Fire Programs oversees this training and has only a handful of instructors that they will allow teach it.  Now, for the Towers part in the training most instructors will invite two or three towing companies to the class.  We set up / stage the accident(s)  with under runs, overturns w/ entrapment's, school bus accidents with multi students pined inside ETC....One thing for sure the firefightes learn just how helpful a Heavy duty tow truck with a GOOD opperator can make there job of rescue much easier. .......If you are looking for a training syllabus  that might be hard to get your hands on because it is the property of the State fire programs. Hope this helps  

 

ResQtator said:

Check with Patrick Zozaya LASVEGASTATOR60 . He trains quite a bit with LVFD.

There has been quite a few other members here training with FDs.
Billy Leach, Jr. teaches a program involving firefighters and recovery operators called Big Rig Rescue that is excellent. Classroom presentaion, notebook/text, and hands-on with heavy vehicles.

 

In memory of Don44Tows who said:

ohio has cross trained with billy leach before.

 

Littletow said:

Thank you all for your responses.

I am going to try and be careful how I approach this, as not to offend anyone.

As an instructor who travels around teaching all responders in ITC, I find in all areas, there is a GREAT lack of cross training. I will say that I have been to different so called " cross trainings" that are not! Any time you seperate entities at a training you defeat the purpose.

NOW, before some of you say that " we try to" or " our FD don't want to" or " the PD think they are too good" ( I have heard it all) there is always a way. It may take determination and a lot of patience but it can happen. I know for a fact, that we as an industry have to educate other responders to what our equipment is capable of, especially FD. They do not need to know how to run our equipment, but they do need to know that when it comes down to cribbing, or lifting especially in an expedited manner we are the ones they need!

I was just curious as to what or if there were any "true" cross training programs out there. Not just for rotators, or heavy rescue but any tow truck, any size of company. If you are doing it in your area, I commend you for your efforts. (I don't consider donating a car to the FD cross training)

I would suggest to all of who don't, fire up the grill, throw some burgers on and personally go invite the FD, PD, EMS, Hazmat companies to come by and set up a couple of scenarios, and show them how you can assist THEM, NOT how you roll over something, let them know of your trainings, certifications, etc..

If we don't make the effort to bridge the gap, shame of us! They won't know how professional we are if we don't show them!

I just came from a meeting of the NFPA ( National Fire Protection Association) where I was the only tower selected to sit on this committee for ITC qualifications. If the National association can see the need to recognize, accept, and invite towing into their standards, so can everyone else.

You can see what we are working on at www.nfpa.org/1091. I am not sure of the final release date but it will be open for public comments soon.

Chet, I told you, you find me a place to stay IM THERE!!!!

 

In Memory of Scooby aka Howard Eagan who said:

I've said this before in other places.  If one has a good curriculum, they aren't going to "give" it away.

Over the last 5 years we have been approached by 3 entities to sell our curriculum.  two offers where what I would deem substantial. 

As far as the manufacturer/sponsor statement, i would guess that is directed towards my training company in which I'm 1/3 owner.  I'm not offended by it, but i will enlighten you and others.  In reality, no manufacture owns our training company.  Its a partnership owned by Jeff Martin, Mike Curry, and myself.  We have backing by many manufactures. If it wasn't directed towards me, thats OK, many think its owned and ran by Matjack, so it allows me to clear the air. 

Training of this type is not cheap.  The costs are astronomical.  To offset costs and have the proper equipment necessary to properly conduct classes, sometimes call for the help of sponsors.  Its no different then Miller supplying WM with trucks, or Miller helping Tommy.  To travel with a team of 4, 5 sometimes 6 guys.. hotels, fuel, food..... expenses are allot. 

I have seen where people try doing this training with the thought that it can be done with 1 or 2 instructors and maybe use the local wrecker or fire guy to teach too.  That philosophy does not work.  I was personally involved in NJ on one of the state extrication teams back in the 90's, working under our team captain; Charlie Angelo.  Every member of the team specialized in a particular station.  They taught a primary station, and where back-up for another station in case of a absentee. 

There has to be a combined team to teach cross-training.  The team needs to consist or both rescue and recovery personal.  The personal needs to have a acceptable resume of field experience. When teaching large groups, especially in the rescue profession, having 1 or 2 instructors to teach 40/50 people is not acceptable, nor is it safe.  Credibility and respect.. something the rescue service demands.  Its much easier coming in to teach cross training when you have half the team instructors well respected in the rescue filed for their accolades.

The cold hard truth is many towing companies have great operators and great equipment.  The problem is they are not educators.  They have problems professionally presenting.  They stand in front of people and every other word out of there mouth is "a"...."um"...with their hands in, then out of their pockets.
They are not rehearsed in putting together a proper course curriculum and agenda.  The intentions are good, but when its presented, its not.  Having a outside entity come in to do the training solves allot of these issues also.  Courses can't be a one size fits all.  Each course has to be customized for the particular recovery companies and rescue squads equipment and capabilities.  Being a educator, requires one to be a entertainer.  One must be able to hold the classes attention.

One would have actuality have had to spend time on a rescue squad or equivalent to fully understand.  Some of these squads spend allot of time training. For some its a requirement.  They view the recovery service as not having the same educational standards as them.

Fortunately there are a few recovery companies that are able to win their emergency personal over.  Schlier's would be one, and I have also herd some good things about nulls over the last couple years.  There are many others, and I don't mean to short-change them by not giving them a nod

I've seen cribbing habits of towers, many are not proficient at it.  In order for us to offer something, we must make sure we are good at it.  By teaching the whole group together at the same time, one can address these issues.  Thats what cross-training is.  Separate entities working and training together.  For the wrecker guy to respect the rescue, they must pick up that tool and do some cutting/spreading.  For the rescue to appreciate the wrecker operator, they should operate the controls of the wrecker, and see how difficult it can be.  they should be doing rigging, they should have a basic understanding of the rigging.

Just some thoughts, I hope you don't take them the wrong way.  I have been involved in cross-training, as well as having command on many large scale rescues from mid-air plane collisions to being sector command on such events as train derailments and so on.  We started in the 80's doing this training, well before it became what it is today and is now a business for some.. me included.  In fact, its big buisness, with everyone wanting to get on board.  I'm a firm believer that anyone teaching this should have a resume of actual service/jobs performed,  their "heart" is in it and have a genuine passion that drives them.  It takes a special person to risk their own life to save another... knowing that they themselves might not come home if they put themselves unselfishly in harms way.

On the other hand, it can haunt a man (or woman) the rest of their lives, by having the physical tools to save someones life, but not being educated/knowing, mentally being able to perform the task.  I sometimes tell this story at some of the classes to get the point across to the non-believers.  I had someone say those words to me one night.... the night he decided to take his own life.  It haunted him not knowing what to do... and he had all the equipment in the world to do it.  This is important training, the fact is, it might just save your own life.

It's more then just a buisness to me. I can safely say that it is for every trainer on our team also

 

Rodney P said:

The heart,soul and mind is and seems to have been in the right place Scooby Thanks

 

DodgeTowGuy134 said:

Angela,
Are you working on developing a "nationwide" model for a cross-training program?

Our company is currently working on a program and I'm interested to hear more about what your getting into and getting going.

I am a firefighter and rescue tech and also own/operate my towing/recovery company, Im in the ditches and on the FD trucks, so I see both sides of this and have been at scenes where tow trucks CAN make a MAJOR difference in the outcome of an incident.

I'm in support of cross-training and looking forward to hearing more of whats in progress of development about this.

 

Bill Leach said:

I have been in the fire/rescue service for over 18 years now and have been in towing and recovery for just over a year. I think its a phenomenal idea and concept and have encouraged it for several years. Nice to see the NFPA is getting involved now. I too would like to see whats going to be coming up and get involved/certified in this as well. I have been a rescue technician for many years as well as an EMT and many other certifications involving the fire service. And I am also going for my wreckmaster cert in a couple weeks. Look forward to it! Cant wait to see the new protocol...

 

Kyresqtow said:

Every couple of years My father and I are co instructors at the state Fire school held here locally... We show them the importance of working together... and that we can be just as important in saving lives as they are... No matter how much equipment they stick on their trucks sometimes you just have to have something larger than air bags because they can only lift so high.... Taught a few instructors a thing or two over the years about the dangers of using bags in certain cases.... We volunteer our time much as do those fighting the fires in our communities...

Scooby that is where I take exception to your statement of giving things away.... Men and women give their time to volunteer for fire service all over this country... some times.... you have to give them a little back. and yes I bet if you go back far enough you will find that even your little area even started as a volunteer department....

 

Littletow said:

Scooobbyyyyyy.....

I am not pointing fingers at anyone specific, let me say that first. I have been to a "cross training" that was not cross training, at least not by my definition.

I do not need curriculum from anyone, and am not asking the question to receive any.

It was asked of me at my NFPA meeting of cross trainings.

I would agree with almost everything you say above and I appreciate the response.

I just believe that more cross trainings need to exist and not so much at the level in which you are teaching. What about the smaller companies in rural areas? Not everyone, have several large trucks, and or airbags , etc... I covered all but 8 states in the last two years teaching and there are alot of entities that would welcome a great cross training. Knowledge is power and people are hungry for education. Some of the FDs have funding available for these kind of trainings.

I would never fault anyone who puts out a great product for a decent price and the students get a lot out of it. As instructors, the last thing we want to hear is that your class sucked and was a waste of time... just saying! LOL This is not about pricing or people or specific operations, it is about great training for all responders as a whole. If the government can start to see us as part of the big picture then we as an industry need to step up and be a apart! You can trust me on this, if we don't start doing it, they are going to do it for us. It is happening in several states and if you will take a look at the states that have Incident Management Programs, the trainings are already there.

I will support trainings that I have been too and believe in and I could not recommend any cross training to the fire personnel that were asking.

 

In Memory of Scooby aka Howard Eagan who said:

Like I said Angela, no offense was taken, but I thought I would take the time to clear the air on some things why the opportunity presented itself. Unfortunately, it may have been at your expense.  Matjack is a great sponsor of the program.  Mostly in part thru my business dealings with john as his factory rep/product trainer.  He made the commitment many years ago to my personal agenda with the BTR stuff.  W/O his support, we could have never got it to where it is today.  In his defense, he has never tried to push any product agenda.  BTR has a strict policy with all our sponsors that the classes are not going to be "product demo" sessions.  All our sponsors are aware of this.. and its maybe why our classes have been successful for all these years.  I think we can lay claim to having perhaps one of the longest successful training organizations of this type.  I have seen many pop up over the years, but fall apart do to interior bickering or just plain bad curriculum's.

There are probably a few other things I want to say, but would rather discuss it privately and in person. 
 

Kyresqtow, I've read my response below back to myself a few times Kevin, every-time I do, it comes off that I'm attacking you.. which I don't want to give that impression.  I just wanted to defend what I/we do and what good is the result of it.  I guess in a ironic way.. I do agree with your statement

In all reality Kevin, I have given plenty. In fact.. I believe I have earned the right to own a training company and operate it for some sort of profit. I have been away from home, worked 21 hour shifts, slept 2 hours on a sidewalk and gone right back to work..... to do work that is to horrifying for many on this board to even grasp w/o the thought of puking. I have paid my own way for all emergency training and certifications over the years.  Have given many many years of service to the rescue squad as a member and officer......    all for free

I charter no thanks. I could careless about some award or a silly title below my name. I have deep convictions as to why I choose to do this. I have chosen this of my own free will.

I have developed friendships/bonds with some people that I will hold special to me for my entire life.  Collectively we have accomplished things I'm very proud of. At times I think we conquered the world.. saving what lives we could... one at a time.   They will always be my brothers and sisters.... and if needed, they will receive my help at whatever the price.

so for you to say, I should give a little back... heres a sampling of what I give back

BTR does a course at no charge a year to a fire training facility of our choosing.

BTR also supports certain foundations that offer treatment of post traumatic stress to emergency workers. Jeff has supported the tema conter foundation up in Ontario Canada for years. I have on numerous occasions attended a few of their support galas.....  a note to everyone, if you the tower responded to a horrific incident, and are bothered by what you encountered.  contact a officer from your fire/rescue/EMS department.  They will make sure you get the help you need.  In fact, make sure you are invited to the debriefing.  Chances are.. on such wrecks, the IC recognizes that it has the potential for emotional problems and will automatically have a group come in for a debriefing.  Make sure you attend.  If you are to proud to do that even... pick up the phone and give me a call.. I personally will do what I can to help you thru it in complete confidence... because as they say at tema.. even heroes are human

BTR also supports a annual walk/race for canine cancer research in PA. This year, I'm hoping to take on one of the title sponsorships. In case you don't know, many of our fury friends aided in the rescue efforts at ground zero, in addition to many other rescue work around the world. The hazards they are exposed to make them sept-able to this kind of disease.

On numerous occasions, free memberships have been given to departments to our classes. (entry fees have been "comp'd)

we have done numerous classes a year at no financial gain for educational symposiums put on by our various sponsors

I personally do a free HP bag class in my community once a year


So as you see, theres plenty of giveback. theres plenty I'm not even discussing, as to be honest, its nobody's business how we choose to "give back"


I can say this, when people here plunk down their hard earned money to either attend a BTR class or a Matjack class. There money is also funneled towards helping.  I'll go one step further, that when people purchase Matjack/jumbo safe lift products, their money goes towards helping. John spends lots of Matjack's money donating product to qualifying training institutions, paying Jeff's or my expenses to do seminars and lectures. When I leave to do this.. I don't get paid. So last I checked, the dentist for my kids braces doesn't say.. hey Howie, its all good, your a good guy doing noble stuff, don't worry about that 4 grand. My kids needs shoes.. the shoe dude isn't impressed. When I walk into Best buy for a laptop to do these free seminars, the geek squad doesn't say.. heres a 1200 dollar laptop Mr.Eagan... keep up the good work...... doesn't happen.

Hopefully you see my point, Charging for the training of the curriculum we develop, does give back