Petition to drivetrain manufactures

[Chad Yarbrough]

If anyone has any connections with manufactures, I would like to send them a petition to make transmissions have an easier disconnect. If a rear differential can be engaged or disengaged with the flip of a switch, a transmission should be able to have the same feature. There have been several instances where I have personally been placed in jeopardy by having to pull a driveshaft in a dangerous area because the vehicle couldn't be moved without damaging the trans.  Towers have to face too much danger as it is. These manufactures should not jeopardize our lives by having to choose between the liability of a transmission or our life.  Your ideas and responses are encouraged. I know this is a long-shot battle, but it needs to start somehow.  If everyone could reply with their name, company name, and date, it will be much appreciated.

[PatroticTower]

Jason Freeway Towing Nov 9th 2019

[TowZone]

OK, who do we have that is good at wording such a petition. Possibly Brian Riker, Jeffrey Godwin, Scott Burrows, Rudy Smith, Mike Pool, Michael McGovern, etc. Cause I know I am missing others, these are just member that have been around the message board longer.

 

I know I can write it, if only I had the collective knowledge of the membership.

Let's give it a try and we'll send it in the right direction. I got that part figured out!

Problem is we will need more than 4000 verified tow companies participating.

 

@brian991219 @FTI Groups @Scott Burrows @Rudy Smith @MNPOOL @Michael McGovern

[Chad Yarbrough]

This is a start ! Thank you for replying ! I am sure Everyone you mentioned would have valuable input! I am new on tow force, so I am not sure how to get more traction with this. However this idea has been stuck in my head for quite some time and I am sure there is technology to create a switch that will disable the driveline and protect the transmission and the tower ! 

I have mentioned it to TRAA as well and would love any information/ input on this . 

[TowZone]

Chad, the Military has had this for years. While there must be some reason similar technology has not been incorporated into civilian vehicles. It is something the towing industry has been bought baffled by and endangered by for years. I'm not referring as much to the hassle of the drive line as I am to the dangers. Roadside safety being one of those dangers. Flipping a switch or pulling a pin would reduce the risks greatly. But, instead we've gotten new designs that make towing more challenging from front axles to aerodynamics. I doubt a petition is going to make a difference, since getting a few tow companies onboard is easy. Getting a minimum of 10% of the industry to sign on much more difficult. Then again I do not know how many Heavy Duty Tow Companies there are in say North America. I only know there are reported to be between 40,000 & 41,000 US Tow Companies.

[Chad Yarbrough]

Why is 4,000 the “magic number “ I am confident we can get that many however . Also, I think even light duty towers have a fight in this as well. Small box trucks and small to medium duty vehicles would apply to this as well in my opinion. 

[TOWMAN27]

How about cars too?  BMW doesn't allow you to use dollies.  When one is stuck in park, you are expected to skate it.  Yes it can be done damage free just like those nifty tow show demonstrations.  In the real world, how often is the car perfectly centered right behind the bed with the wheels facing straight?  This is especially fun on the highway, in a short driveway on a main road, or a tight parking lot.  How about when you go to drop.  Not every dealership or shop has a huge lot with plenty of room to drive out from under the car.  I've noticed they never show how to unload a BMW in the training videos.  

[Chad Yarbrough]

I do agree it is a hassle . However, there are ways to unload them with skates and utilizing a snatch block to reverse the pull to the end of the bed . I’m not sure about BMW not allowing dollies . I do know Mercedes call for dollies and or flatbed with skates . 

[Jim B]

You have to be careful putting some BMW's on a wheel lift. They will actually bend the carbonite frame. Not all models have it but i can never remember which ones.

[brian991219]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:11 PM, TowZone said:

OK, who do we have that is good at wording such a petition. Possibly Brian Riker, Jeffrey Godwin, Scott Burrows, Rudy Smith, Mike Pool, Michael McGovern, etc. Cause I know I am missing others, these are just member that have been around the message board longer.

 

I know I can write it, if only I had the collective knowledge of the membership.

Let's give it a try and we'll send it in the right direction. I got that part figured out!

Problem is we will need more than 4000 verified tow companies participating.

 

@brian991219 @FTI Groups @Scott Burrows @Rudy Smith @MNPOOL @Michael McGovern

Happy to help Ron, just have to figure out what we want to say.

 

I have long been a proponent of easier and more consistent tow hookups on all vehicles with a special focus on heavy duty. It baffles me why we do not have a simple drive line disconnect as well as universal air and electric hookups to make lights and brakes very simple. Again, to adopt from the military vehicles that already have this technology would seem simple. From my understanding of the manufacturing process this is not done mostly for cost. Given the economy of scale a simple $5 redesign sounds like a no-brainer, however multiply that by half a million vehicles per year and you can see why the manufacturers are reluctant to make these changes.

 

Chad, glad to see you as a new member here. I am sure you will find this a very informative and useful forum for the industry. Thank you for your participation.

[Stuart Wagner]

Amen to the driveline disconnect

C. J. Wagner Inc

110 West LIncoln Avenue

Myerstown PA 17067

[Chad Yarbrough]

Brian, I have also thought about trying to make this a legislative issue during our summit in DC. Maybe that will be a way to grab our congress persons ear. Towers should not have to choose between the liability of a transmission or the liability of loosing our life!

[Jim B]

They need to make All Wheel Drive cars front wheel only when no power is turned on. Volvo is like this and i believe the Honda's are also but not sure.

[brian991219]

10 hours ago, Chad Yarbrough said:

Brian, I have also thought about trying to make this a legislative issue during our summit in DC. Maybe that will be a way to grab our congress persons ear. Towers should not have to choose between the liability of a transmission or the liability of loosing our life!

Chad, I will second that motion if you present it.

 

We also need to speak to the representatives that are on the SAE towability committee as well as those on the individual truck manufacturer's advisory boards. This issue has been raised in the past with little success, however we are facing a crisis unparalleled in the tow industry with the loss of life and distracted driving at an all time high. It is time to address tower safety from many angles, and this is an important angle to address.

 

As vehicle designs change, think of the introduction of all electric vehicles -many that will use individual drive motors at the wheel end or planetary drives like the city buses do- we need to find a universal accepted tow hook up procedure for lights, brakes and drive line disable features. Having universal front and rear attachment points for both lifting as well as the lights, brakes and a means of drive line disconnect would solve the towability issues for 80-90% of normal tows. Sure, after crashes, fires or other extraordinary circumstances towers would still be faced with difficult hookup procedures, but the typical daily tow would be so much easier and safer. This could even eliminate other damage claims, not just drive train damage claims.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

Im all for it.

 

Joey Fischett

Ryans Towing and Recovery

Ithaca NY 14850

[someotherplace]

On 11/10/2019 at 12:15 PM, Jim B said:

You have to be careful putting some BMW's on a wheel lift. They will actually bend the carbonite frame. Not all models have it but i can never remember which ones.

Curious as to your information source?  When manufacturers make claims like that it always makes me wonder how lifting a vehicle from the same wheels that support it on the road can somehow lead to damage.

 

Richard

[TOWMAN27]

7 hours ago, someotherplace said:

Curious as to your information source?  When manufacturers make claims like that it always makes me wonder how lifting a vehicle from the same wheels that support it on the road can somehow lead to damage.

 

Richard

BMW manufacturer guidelines from Allstate Motor Club.  Dealerships are not supposed to accept a car towed in by wheel lift and dollies.  You are allowed to w/l it out of a parking garage or move it to an area where it can be skated onto a flatbed.  Be careful with a flatbed too.  The only approved tie down method is 8 point straps over the wheels.  If you put a strap through a wheel and scratch it or damage it you will have to buy four new wheels.  The paint can't be matched or something crazy like that.

[Jim B]

Towman27 is correct. Even my contract with Urgently to do BMW they must be on a flatbed. My dealer does not say anything to me if i dolly one. Usually only SUV's  stuck in park or in a garage. Paul Stephens is a good source of info. If your at a tow show you should go to one of his classes.

[someotherplace]

Thanks fellas, however Jim, your statement confuses me - Towman says the dealer isn't supposed to accept a dollied BMW; you said your dealer doesn't say anything.  Also again the specific models requiring dollies would be good to know.  I'm certain it does not include every BMW model, especially older ones.

 

I do understand arguing with the dealer can be futile, but in the case of non-consent tows, or consent (but repo), there are many BMW's dollied on a regular basis and so far I fail to understand how one can be damaged this way unless the operator is grossly negligent somehow.

 

Richard

[Jim B]

I am emailing my source. Hopefully he will respond to me quickly

[Jim B]

OK This is from the BMW trainer. Hope this helps.  Also we were told if the frame bends you can not see it by the eye but the wires rub and then it goes bye bye

i3

i8

m6

7 series

and soon to be 5 series

[TOWMAN27]

I just wanted to clarify about dollies.  It is just certain years and series that dollies shouldn't be used.  Also I think BMW strongly suggests that the dealer not accept a car so they do not get blamed for damage.

[BlackAutoload]

sounds to me like all new bmws should be another companies problem, not mine... 

Complete hog wash if you ask me but what can a little guy do vs an automaker .

A club could never pay me enough to skate a new car on and off a deck.  Next thing you know they want you to buy a trans or a flat spotted tire. Screwed either way.  

[TowZone]

So, if the frame will bend by placing the vehicle on dollies and towing it on dollies then I generally use the analogy they should never drive over Rail Road Tracks, Speed Bumps, Rough Roads, Pot holes and come to think of it you know those guides in a car wash those are a definite No. Hog Wash is Right and I want them do do a video explaining in detail how the frame would bend. I doubt that video would ever be made, as this is just an excuse to forcest tow operators to roll back BMW's. If I were doing them the cost of the Roll Back would be twice what the cost of a regular tow truck and dollies would be. I would not except any BMW on Motor Club Call unless it were regular rates doubled and it would be justified by the risk factor. If an overwhelming number of Tow Companies would take control of mindless, senseless procedures such as these it would resonate quickly when BMW Owners were forced to wait hours or days and sign legal documents far and beyond any damage waiver. Yep, that's what it will take. You think I am joking, it only takes one or two dealers that take this seriously and inspect every tow in. When they find damage, likely and obviously prior to the tow they will attempt to charge the tow company for the repair. All it will take is one company that chooses not to fight it to send a wave throughout the BMW Dealers and the Towing Industry.

 

Does BMW show where these stress points are? that would be good to know. If you cannot see them then what type of equipment do they use to detect them. And if months later there is an electrical issue because there wiring rides along the frame are they going to go back on the last tow company to transport the vehicle.

 

Is there a Service Bulletin/Notification about this issue, Is it in the Owners Manual or is it just Verbal, if it is just Verbal then it is only a suggestion and there is no legal recourse, a company just could not tow into that dealer again. I think the Last tow I did to a BMW Dealer would be my Last, not worth the risk unless their willing to pay premium and sign off on the manner of transport.

[GRUMPS The Towman]

right on towzone!!! I want detailed descriptions and diagrams of the supposed damage that may possibly be caused directly from BMW.. not some dealership or some service writer, the actual engineering department that says it cant be done. and if this is exactly the case then the required equipment needed to tow these things will be billed out accordingly and there will be a specific and inclusive waiver signed by the person handing the casualty vehicle over and the person accepting it at the other end. this procedure as well will be billed accordingly.  

[Njsss]

Good idea.  But.  Highly unlikely any manufacturer will entertain this 

Reason 1- COST

2- Certainly not a positive selling point, would appear a break down & tow is expected with the new vehicle you purchased

 

how often do European manufacturers ever admit to ANY poor engineering ? 

 

[Chad Yarbrough]

I greatly appreciate everyone's input. I know there are many routes we can take, However I would like to focus on the Heavy duty vehicles. The small vehicles can normally be skated or Go Jacked to maneuver on to a flatbed. The amount of time it takes to pull the driveline while underneath the truck on the side of a busy interstate is extremely dangerous. At a very minimum, towers need some protections from damage or liability if we move the vehicle to a safe location to remove the driveline.  Brian, I would love to sit down at the summit or maybe the event in January if your going to discuss further. 

[ProTower]

Looks like the BMW's have highjacked your original thread here.  I ran across your thread while looking for more info on removing the new Freightliner and Volvo drivelines, they have bolts and nuts instead of the normal set up of 12 point bolts through the bearing cap or straps to secure them.

 

I agree 100% that something more needs to be done about this than the truck manufacturer applying decals warning you the transmission will be damaged if the driveshafts or axles are not removed prior to moving the vehicle. The companies that unknowingly purchase these trucks are the same ones that will scream about the time and labor it takes to tow them properly. We lock the tractor brakes and pull the tractor out from under the trailer so it can be rear towed. Then we use a semi tractor to tow the trailer to safety. The companies feel like you are merely running up the bill on them but they still have to pay it.